Crimping - help

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xenia
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Crimping - help

Postby xenia » Wed Oct 11 2017 20:10

I have started a previous thread about crimps - I listened to the responses and got myself some new kit.

I have got Drennan wire (28lb 7 strand) and matching crimps - chucked out my Cardoc cheap crimping pliers and bought the recommended Fox crimping pliers.

When I offer up the crimps to the pliers' jaws, there are various potential "squeeze" points in the jaws. I have tried them all from the widest part to the narrow bit with the ridges.

When I test the strength of the finished result, they are useless (slip at about 3lb strain).

Any suggestions? I have to admit that the crimping pliers are disappointing - but maybe I'm using them the wrong way.

Should I be aiming to use the ridged bit and getting a rippled effect on the crimp (even when I have done this, the strength is pathetic).

Does anyone know of a decent youtube clip that shows how to crimp.

Thanks

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Andrew Croft » Wed Oct 11 2017 20:23

Are you tripling up the wire inside th3 crimp or only going through the crimp twice.
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby mick.e » Wed Oct 11 2017 20:31

I only put the wire through twice and never had a problem, are you crimping them hard enough (using the serated part)? quite firm presure is required.

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby xenia » Wed Oct 11 2017 20:35

I have put through once

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby dannytaylor » Wed Oct 11 2017 20:39

xenia wrote:
I have put through once
Double it back :thumbs:

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Kevin O'Keeffe » Wed Oct 11 2017 22:23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq8Yx8ULTKw

I would go through the crimp three times though.
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Mike J » Thu Oct 12 2017 08:21

Well done for making a load test. :thumbs:

The vid link is incorrect and misleading. :roll:

Tips.
Through the swivel twice.
Wire should only just fit through the sleeve.
No loop, the crimp should be close to the swivel.
Do not use masher pliers.


And
Do not crimp nylon coated wire.


Start a business selling crimps and crimping tools to serious pike anglers? :scratch:

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Kev Berry » Thu Oct 12 2017 08:42

Mike J wrote:
Well done for making a load test. :thumbs:

The vid link is incorrect and misleading. :roll:

Tips.
Through the swivel twice.
Wire should only just fit through the sleeve.
No loop, the crimp should be close to the swivel.
Do not use masher pliers.


And
Do not crimp nylon coated wire.


Start a business selling crimps and crimping tools to serious pike anglers? :scratch:
twice through the swivel and crimp pulled tight upto it?

no thanks, that is putting stress on the wire and on Ti wire in particular, for many years I have just crimped loop at the end of my trace, that then clips onto a coast lock or similar---absolutely no problems :thumbs:

the wire should be a tight fit after passing through 3 times
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Mike J » Thu Oct 12 2017 08:51

Kev Berry wrote:
Mike J wrote:
Well done for making a load test. :thumbs:

The vid link is incorrect and misleading. :roll:

Tips.
Through the swivel twice.
Wire should only just fit through the sleeve.
No loop, the crimp should be close to the swivel.
Do not use masher pliers.


And
Do not crimp nylon coated wire.


Start a business selling crimps and crimping tools to serious pike anglers? :scratch:
twice through the swivel and crimp pulled tight upto it?

no thanks, that is putting stress on the wire and on Ti wire in particular, for many years I have just crimped loop at the end of my trace, that then clips onto a coast lock or similar---absolutely no problems :thumbs:

the wire should be a tight fit after passing through 3 times


Read it again Kev

I said should be close - not up tight.
As you say up tight is incorrect. Why - because most crimps are sliced off an extruded section a process which leaves burrs at each end of the crimp which act as an anvil when the wire is flexed. Ideally these burrs should be removed from all crimps before use.

What matters is the tight fit, especially if you cannot scource suitable crimps then 3 or even 4 times can often achieve an workable result.
Ive even used a packing piece of copper domestic wire to achieve the tight fit before crimping.

:thumbs:

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby dannytaylor » Thu Oct 12 2017 10:06

Mike J wrote:
Well done for making a load test. :thumbs:

The vid link is incorrect and misleading. :roll:

Tips.
Through the swivel twice.
Wire should only just fit through the sleeve.
No loop, the crimp should be close to the swivel.
Do not use masher pliers.


And
Do not crimp nylon coated wire.


Start a business selling crimps and crimping tools to serious pike anglers? :scratch:


Why would you not crimp nylon coated wire?

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby AndyLarkins » Thu Oct 12 2017 12:08

I prefer nylon coated wire - never had a problem with crimping!..... always pass the wire three times through a snug fitting crimp (leaving a couple of mm at each end of the crimp "un-sqeezed" so no sharp edges where the wire exits the crimp)

I think too much emphasis is placed on the crimp taking the entire load - by simply using a Lark's Head (hitch) or a Flemish Loop PRIOR to finishing-off the tag-ends with a crimp, reduces the load bearing on the crimp considerably!
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby dannytaylor » Thu Oct 12 2017 12:36

AndyLarkins wrote:
I prefer nylon coated wire - never had a problem with crimping!..... always pass the wire three times through a snug fitting crimp (leaving a couple of mm at each end of the crimp "un-sqeezed" so no sharp edges where the wire exits the crimp)

I think too much emphasis is placed on the crimp taking the entire load - by simply using a Lark's Head (hitch) or a Flemish Loop PRIOR to finishing-off the tag-ends with a crimp, reduces the load bearing on the crimp considerably!
Do you have any pics of this Andy?

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Kev Berry » Thu Oct 12 2017 12:44

Push a loop through the swivel then push the swivel through the loop and tighten up

should be fun with the stiffer /thicker wires :wink:
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Nige Johns » Thu Oct 12 2017 13:55

Kev Berry wrote:
Mike J wrote:
Well done for making a load test. :thumbs:

The vid link is incorrect and misleading. :roll:

Tips.
Through the swivel twice.
Wire should only just fit through the sleeve.
No loop, the crimp should be close to the swivel.
Do not use masher pliers.


And
Do not crimp nylon coated wire.


Start a business selling crimps and crimping tools to serious pike anglers? :scratch:
twice through the swivel and crimp pulled tight upto it?

no thanks, that is putting stress on the wire and on Ti wire in particular, for many years I have just crimped loop at the end of my trace, that then clips onto a coast lock or similar---absolutely no problems :thumbs:

the wire should be a tight fit after passing through 3 times
If you go they the swivel twice,the crimp has got to be fairly close to avoid the wire in the swivel trying to unravel,never had a prob with mine :thumbs:

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby dannytaylor » Thu Oct 12 2017 14:13

Kev Berry wrote:
Push a loop through the swivel then push the swivel through the loop and tighten up

should be fun with the stiffer /thicker wires :wink:
No use for me then as i dont incorporate swivels in my traces anymore, just crimp a loop and clip onto a staylock and swivel.

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Kev Berry » Thu Oct 12 2017 15:13

dannytaylor wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
Push a loop through the swivel then push the swivel through the loop and tighten up

should be fun with the stiffer /thicker wires :wink:
No use for me then as i dont incorporate swivels in my traces anymore, just crimp a loop and clip onto a staylock and swivel.
that's the way :thumbs:
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby AndyLarkins » Thu Oct 12 2017 18:21

dannytaylor wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
Push a loop through the swivel then push the swivel through the loop and tighten up

should be fun with the stiffer /thicker wires :wink:
No use for me then as i dont incorporate swivels in my traces anymore, just crimp a loop and clip onto a staylock and swivel.
Lark's Head (Hitch)
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Flemish Loop
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Andrew Croft » Thu Oct 12 2017 18:38

Flemish loop is pretty good gives some buffer to the force put on the crimps and once saved me from a lost fish when the tag end came out of the crimp (dont know why) and it tightened up on the hook preventing it from coming off :thumbs:
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Nige Johns » Thu Oct 12 2017 19:12

Just tried the Larks’s head with Drennan 7 strand but it’s s bit to springy to get it neat enuf,worth a try tho

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby dannytaylor » Thu Oct 12 2017 20:09

Like the look of the flemmish loop :thumbs: will have a go at incorporating this.

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby The predator » Sat Oct 14 2017 08:23

I think you're overcomplicating things.
I use AFW 40lb single strand Ti wire with #3 size crimps from ET.
Once through a swivel, double crimps and shrink tube over the crimps.
I have NEVER had one fail!!!!
Simples :thumbs:
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby MarkBerrisford » Sat Oct 14 2017 16:33

I've never had a loop fail on a trace, any breakages when testing traces have been on the other side of the crimp.
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Kev Berry » Sat Oct 14 2017 16:57

dannytaylor wrote:
Like the look of the flemmish loop :thumbs: will have a go at incorporating this.
just remember all these knots were meant to be used on rope----not wire.
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby norleveller » Sat Oct 14 2017 17:30

best crimps to use are et or the ones from agm these are soft probably copper,they grip the wire better and are not to harsh on the wire,i use these with k2k single strand nickel titanium wire,push through crimp through hook/swivel back through crimp and then back in again so tag comes out other side then i crimp with fox pliers[serrated jaws] never had one fail and the k2k is brilliant stuff[45lb bs]

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Andrew Croft » Sat Oct 14 2017 17:45

Kev Berry wrote:
dannytaylor wrote:
Like the look of the flemmish loop :thumbs: will have a go at incorporating this.
just remember all these knots were meant to be used on rope----not wire.
Whats your point ?

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby xenia » Sat Oct 14 2017 18:20

Thanks for everyone's help and advice - better than reading any book.
I have spent today making up various combinations of nylon coated 44lb Fladen wire with 1.6mm TronixPro crimps and Drennan Seven Strand 28lb with matching Drennan crimps. I tested by suspending a bucket and filling it with water hanging on a simple trace..
I can tell you the results in broad terms.
* Nylon coated passed through once and crimped with Fox pliers failed at just 8lb weight - failure was not immediate - took about 1 minute under 8lb strain. Pass it through the crimp twice and it exceeded 45lb (21 litres of water).
* The Drennan stuff barely got past 6lb when passed through once and crimped with Fox pliers. Pass through twice and it slips but does not fail at about 10lb. Pass through 3 times and it slips but does not fail at 20lb and takes 30lb without failure. There was some variability with these - some passed through 3 times slipped at about 10ib
*Best result for the Drennan set was by passing through 3 times and squeezing flat with ordinary pliers plus some gentle pinch points with the cutting section of the ordinary plliers. No slippage or failure up to 33lb (15 litres in the bucket).

To be fair, I guess the Fox pliers are designed to be used with Fox crimps - so I don't want to slate them. But with the crimps I used the results varied from what can only be described a partial flattening to splitting/rupturing - depending on where the crimp was presented to the jaws (hold it in the peak of the serrated bit and it ruptures - present it to the lowest part of the smallest "valley" and it only part squashes it. Using normal (£2 Wilko ones to be exact) gave me more control.

I also discovered that so called 30lb rated snap locks rupture open at just over 15lb strain.

Now I know what to do - the advice here was correct.

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Wes12 » Sat Oct 14 2017 18:41

How can you only pass the wire thro the crimp once, also are you sure your crimping it hard enough.

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Kev Berry » Sat Oct 14 2017 18:58

xenia wrote:
Thanks for everyone's help and advice - better than reading any book.
I have spent today making up various combinations of nylon coated 44lb Fladen wire with 1.6mm TronixPro crimps and Drennan Seven Strand 28lb with matching Drennan crimps. I tested by suspending a bucket and filling it with water hanging on a simple trace..
I can tell you the results in broad terms.
* Nylon coated passed through once and crimped with Fox pliers failed at just 8lb weight - failure was not immediate - took about 1 minute under 8lb strain. Pass it through the crimp twice and it exceeded 45lb (21 litres of water).
* The Drennan stuff barely got past 6lb when passed through once and crimped with Fox pliers. Pass through twice and it slips but does not fail at about 10lb. Pass through 3 times and it slips but does not fail at 20lb and takes 30lb without failure. There was some variability with these - some passed through 3 times slipped at about 10ib
*Best result for the Drennan set was by passing through 3 times and squeezing flat with ordinary pliers plus some gentle pinch points with the cutting section of the ordinary plliers. No slippage or failure up to 33lb (15 litres in the bucket).

To be fair, I guess the Fox pliers are designed to be used with Fox crimps - so I don't want to slate them. But with the crimps I used the results varied from what can only be described a partial flattening to splitting/rupturing - depending on where the crimp was presented to the jaws (hold it in the peak of the serrated bit and it ruptures - present it to the lowest part of the smallest "valley" and it only part squashes it. Using normal (£2 Wilko ones to be exact) gave me more control.

I also discovered that so called 30lb rated snap locks rupture open at just over 15lb strain.

Now I know what to do - the advice here was correct.
you arnt using enough crimping power ---have more weetabix :thumbs:
"I am proclaimed the font of all knowledge"---according to Dumb and Dumber

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Re: Crimping - help

Postby Kev Berry » Sat Oct 14 2017 18:59

Andrew Croft wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
dannytaylor wrote:
Like the look of the flemmish loop :thumbs: will have a go at incorporating this.
just remember all these knots were meant to be used on rope----not wire.
Whats your point ?

( Not arguin face.... yet :giggle: )
if you not arguing ---do one :thumbs:
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Re: Crimping - help

Postby dannytaylor » Sat Oct 14 2017 19:07

xenia wrote:
Thanks for everyone's help and advice - better than reading any book.
I have spent today making up various combinations of nylon coated 44lb Fladen wire with 1.6mm TronixPro crimps and Drennan Seven Strand 28lb with matching Drennan crimps. I tested by suspending a bucket and filling it with water hanging on a simple trace..
I can tell you the results in broad terms.
* Nylon coated passed through once and crimped with Fox pliers failed at just 8lb weight - failure was not immediate - took about 1 minute under 8lb strain. Pass it through the crimp twice and it exceeded 45lb (21 litres of water).
* The Drennan stuff barely got past 6lb when passed through once and crimped with Fox pliers. Pass through twice and it slips but does not fail at about 10lb. Pass through 3 times and it slips but does not fail at 20lb and takes 30lb without failure. There was some variability with these - some passed through 3 times slipped at about 10ib
*Best result for the Drennan set was by passing through 3 times and squeezing flat with ordinary pliers plus some gentle pinch points with the cutting section of the ordinary plliers. No slippage or failure up to 33lb (15 litres in the bucket).

To be fair, I guess the Fox pliers are designed to be used with Fox crimps - so I don't want to slate them. But with the crimps I used the results varied from what can only be described a partial flattening to splitting/rupturing - depending on where the crimp was presented to the jaws (hold it in the peak of the serrated bit and it ruptures - present it to the lowest part of the smallest "valley" and it only part squashes it. Using normal (£2 Wilko ones to be exact) gave me more control.

I also discovered that so called 30lb rated snap locks rupture open at just over 15lb strain.

Now I know what to do - the advice here was correct.
Interesting findings. Did you shockload any of the traces?

As for the snap locks 30lb is way too light go for 200-400lb + staylocks. You cant go to heavy for pike.


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