hello + my feelings about this

[alex.ch]

Hi everyone, I'm Alex and have been lure fishing for pike around the South West for about a 6 months now. I like covering long stretches on foot, up to about 12 miles on a full day's session and have been lucky enough to get a few doubles (4 to be specific) on a heavy setup and big lures, over this time. Stumbled upon this forum and decided to have a look, potentially contribute.

Now being Romanian, I have unfortunately soon discovered a lot of rather hateful talk about the 'EE's, group to which I just found out I belong, obviously with regard to keeping fish. I personally do take offense on that topic for a couple of reasons: first, I used to fish quite a lot in Romania from since I was a wee boy until about the age of 18, and can say to you that not all Romanians are keeping fish, even less nowadays. secondly, I personally did not keep fish for food back than as I never did in these last 6 months;

As an analogy, would someone express worries about leaving their dog near Chinese people, that would be considered racist because not all Chinese eat dogs; for some reason though, expressions of xenophobia and disgust towards the 'EE's still pass by unchallenged.

Now, I'm not a fan of censorship because if people don't express racism it does not mean it's not there; however, I would appreciate if the admins would try and explain every now and then that generalization doesn't do much good in the sense in makes decent people feel bad and also, as always it's not accurate;

As a side note, would anyone take my observations lightly or think I have too much time on my hands, please imagine yourself being referred to as a pest, in a group with otters and cormorants, whilst you're actually making a real effort with fish care and environment in general;

To end with, there are also other and more important matters contributing to the health of an ecosystem and fish popullations then a handful of people keeping line caught fish to eat - pollution, over-development, anthropisation, heavy boating, invasive species, etc.

On a more positive note, I will leave you to a ~40 pounder caught and released on a tiny lure in Romania early this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsLcvXUIrOY

Many thanks,

A.

[Andrew]

Thanks for posting and welcone to the pit alex. I always welcome a friendly debate on this issue and hope this topic remains that way.

Forum admins (which im part of) will always remove genuinely racist posts. We cann9t however read every post so there is a report post button for anyone wanting to draw an admins attention to a post from our members.

[Jason Skilton]

Welcome to the Pit

[cookiesdaughtersdad]

Hi everyone, I'm Alex and have been lure fishing for pike around the South West for about a 6 months now. I like covering long stretches on foot, up to about 12 miles on a full day's session and have been lucky enough to get a few doubles (4 to be specific) on a heavy setup and big lures, over this time. Stumbled upon this forum and decided to have a look, potentially contribute.

Now being Romanian, I have unfortunately soon discovered a lot of rather hateful talk about the 'EE's, group to which I just found out I belong, obviously with regard to keeping fish. I personally do take offense on that topic for a couple of reasons: first, I used to fish quite a lot in Romania from since I was a wee boy until about the age of 18, and can say to you that not all Romanians are keeping fish, even less nowadays. secondly, I personally did not keep fish for food back than as I never did in these last 6 months;

As an analogy, would someone express worries about leaving their dog near Chinese people, that would be considered racist because not all Chinese eat dogs; for some reason though, expressions of xenophobia and disgust towards the 'EE's still pass by unchallenged.

Now, I'm not a fan of censorship because if people don't express racism it does not mean it's not there; however, I would appreciate if the admins would try and explain every now and then that generalization doesn't do much good in the sense in makes decent people feel bad and also, as always it's not accurate;

As a side note, would anyone take my observations lightly or think I have too much time on my hands, please imagine yourself being referred to as a pest, in a group with otters and cormorants, whilst you're actually making a real effort with fish care and environment in general;

To end with, there are also other and more important matters contributing to the health of an ecosystem and fish popullations then a handful of people keeping line caught fish to eat - pollution, over-development, anthropisation, heavy boating, invasive species, etc.

On a more positive note, I will leave you to a ~40 pounder caught and released on a tiny lure in Romania early this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsLcvXUIrOY

Many thanks,

A.

Stand back and await the replys mate !

I personally believe that the majority of "EES" put the fish back and the main method they employ, small spinners and lures are generally selective but the trouble with all this is that some use nets and others uses fixed or long lines.
Because unlike the otter you mention, "EEs" as we call them are not part of the ecosystem and so never have to find a balance with their prey, otters are also indigenous.
The trouble with the current ecology of the rivers is that for years everything was making it harder and harder for fish to reproduce with crayfish and abstraction being just two reasons and so the fish biomass was dominated by large specimens, then some smart feckers decided to reintroduce a top predator called the otter into an environment it had never evolved in and as far as many water are concerned, large fish where all there was to eat, but like I said the otter long term has to find a balance with its environment. Then add the "EEs" into the mix that do not have to find balance with the rivers ecology and I'm sure you can see where a lot of the animosity comes from.
Remove the large specimens from a water like that and the fish populations crash.
I do believe some of the posts on here can be considered racist and that is up to you to hang around or not and the admin of this forum to act.

When/if the people from Eastern European countries put all the fish back, it would still take some time for these generalizations to stop.
There are many of us who are so passionate with this sport it borders on obsession and if you mess with that, you mess with them!

Welcome and enjoy the site if your shoulders are broad enough, I personally hope you hang around and show the other side of the story I know to be there!

Cheers Alan

oh and ps you link the video to a cracking fish only for them to use a boga grip on it , that will do your argument no favours at all

[alan behenna]

Welcome!

But you had better be ready to have some broad shoulders. This is the Pit! Get used to it, or you can always duck out/leave.

Don't whine at something that you interpret as being "racist", if another angler is stating a fact as applies to personal experience in his/her local area.

"All are welcome" if they are in the habit of catch and release. "Anyone" who kills coarse fish for the table or for selling on can "do one".

[Mike J]

Hi Alex and welcome aboard.
Your post and opinions will be a change from what we usually post and I look forward to you staying with us for a long long time.

Clearly you are well educated and have decided to express your thoughts about the opinions experessed on here.
Please remember those posts are not without strong foundation and many members have had their waters illegally fished by persons only interested in exploiting the fish populations as a food source.
The fact that these persons are mainly immigrant workers for Poland or Romania has led to the use of the EE abbreviation.

You will note that in my post below the nationality was clearly defined, further supported by the numerous video posts on how he cooked carp he had stolen.

I refer you to my Pike Forum post Fish Eaters - in court soon.

Best wishes, Mike J.

[Nige Johns]

I’ve told the wife to make tea early as it could take me all night to read some of the replies later

[Wes12]

I think ile go and get a couple of bottles of wine for this one.

[Tomcox77]

Welcome indeed. Empathise a lot with what you say but that video is not a good watch...the boga grip is something we should never see in piking and I hope you yourself don’t use one..
They actually lift the whole weight of that fish on it! All that weight on one fragile point.
Stick around you may learn a thing or two and hopefully get through to some folk (good luck) ...

[RAB-HENDO]

Can I ask if you still use boga grips and no mat?

[Andytheammer]

Next you’ll be telling us ALL Muslims ain’t Isis!

Good to have you onboard, hope you’re thick skinned enough to stick around

[Mercman]

I'll give it a week...


(Delboy face)

[alex.ch]

Hello again and thanks everyone for the warm welcome;

Andrew Croft, thanks for putting this up and I intend to have nothing else than a friendly expression of my thoughts. I would also not advocate for the removal of any comment even if I would find some to be racist, but I do like to explain why that is and generally try to make good.

Alan, you are 100% and there are many other factors jeopardizing the ecosystems and the quality of fishing, but all must be dealt with individually. For example, looking at what happens due to overstocking of carp - they completely erase vegetation which is crucial for the reproduction of many species - I personally believe this will lead to lower populations of course species in many areas because it is a practice which has a strong commercial drive, thus it will carry on.

Hence, it's not fair to say - there's pollution, invasive species, over-development etc. which we won't do anything about but then on top come the 'EE's' who we can give a rough time to.

The most important point - if we're actually looking to address the issue of people keeping fish rather than having a comforting xenophobic rant, I believe the blaming and shaming doesn't work. With any human issue to be dealt with, there are 2 simultaneous actions to be taken: incentive and enforcement; For example rather than 'it's not nice of you not having a mat' you can say 'it's so helpful to have a mat - your fish will be nice and clean for photos and you can keep it there for a minute without worrying it'll start rolling in the dust; also, you can fish many waters where they will require you to have one'. Likewise for catch and release - one can make a youtube channel where people post videos of releasing beautiful fish and get some praise for that. Now, the type of eastern European people who do keep fish, will not be discouraged by some hateful looks or posts or signs. Potentially quite the opposite. But they would like to show off their fishing skills and through that and through be-friending other anglers I'm sure they do want to become and feel, part of the community.

With regard to the use of a grip, I don't see the point of that practice and like many other bad habits it was picked up from the US. I personally don't use it, I do use a mat and here's a link to the beauty I had yesterday https://drive.google.com/open?id=13VIYJ ... dFK2022Qgw ; I am aware I should've wet the mat beforehand but I got a bit carried away and will do better next time;

[Nige Johns]

Alex dear Alex, there is no way that our poaching friends who take fish indiscrimitely do so because they want to show us their fishing skills nor do they want to become and feel part of the community,THEY couldn’t give a flying fook what damage they are doing to any fishery.Having spoken to several of these types and tried to reason with them through conversation and education,the only language they understand in intimidation and violence,hence confiscation of tackle and a quick test of their swimming prowess is often the only way to get through to them.Now you may not like this but sometimes it’s best to fight fire with fire.

[RAB-HENDO]

There are waters fuucked all over the highlands of Scotland with foreign men. Only with one agenda kill and eat. You are in a position now too educate and put forward ours and our southern friends agenda on catch and release!!!
Please do so

[alex.ch]

Nige, buddy, you do whatever you think suits; however 'violence' and 'testing of swimming prowess' would surely be only applied to people you find as being financially, socially and intellectually vulnerable; otherwise you'd risk being dragged through courts for a good while.

See when I was a small boy around 6-8yrs old, I sometimes used to see local fisherman selling at the market. They were mainly hanging strings with several crucian carp tied around the gill plates. Now these were poor people selling cheap fish for other poor people. Don't get me wrong, we were 500 miles away from any sea so no saltwater fish around in the 90's, but the middle class would buy farmed carp, pike or zander once or twice a year. Anyway, I used to nick a few coins from my parents, buy one of those strings, sneak them in and try to revive them in the bathtub, to then return them to the river. That's because I could see some of them were still moving. I would usually only manage to get 2 or 3 out of many back to life and I would be really sad about the rest of them.

The point is I do care about fish, I couldn't stand killing them, but I can't support putting fish over people, no matter how much one enjoys fishing;

[Mike J]

Alex,
Para 4, line 1
The most important point is to use the correct terminology.
The people to which you refer are not keeping fish, they are stealing them, are therefore guilty of theft, can be referred to as thieves or felons and if convicted in Court, convicts.

If a person dishonestly appropriates (steals) property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it he is guilty of theft, a criminal offence under the Theft Act.

Such is the richness of the English language.

[Andrew]

Alex,
Para 4, line 1
The most important point is to use the correct terminology.
The people to which you refer are not keeping fish, they are stealing them, are therefore guilty of theft, can be referred to as thieves or felons and if convicted in Court, convicts.

If a person dishonestly appropriates (steals) property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it he is guilty of theft, a criminal offence under the Theft Act.

Such is the richness of the English language.

Thought I could take a tenner out my mums purse when I was a nipper. in my defense I did say I was taking it when she was in the bath.

she ran doon the street after me in nowt but a towel

[cookiesdaughtersdad]

Alex,
Para 4, line 1
The most important point is to use the correct terminology.
The people to which you refer are not keeping fish, they are stealing them, are therefore guilty of theft, can be referred to as thieves or felons and if convicted in Court, convicts.

If a person dishonestly appropriates (steals) property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it he is guilty of theft, a criminal offence under the Theft Act.

Such is the richness of the English language.

You cant steel a river fish as no one owns them!

Cheers Alan

[Scrfishing]

Unfortunetly Alex I work with about 200 EE’s. About 30 of them fish & all they do is brag about the pike they catch & eat.
I was walking around a local pond to me last year, and found 3 rigs line from bank to bank with size 2 hooks every 2-3 inch. Each line had 100+ hooks on. After further investigation we found the culprits to be the EE’s that strawberry pick on the field next to the pond. Unfortunetly people like that give EE’s a bad name

[alex.ch]

Mike J, many carp fisheries are a bit farm like, aren't they? many are also overstocked... Thus why not just sell it to them?

Scrfishing that's poaching, it's a criminal offence and must be enforced. But I also doubt you heard 30 people bragging about cooking pike. One of my mates from school graduated from pisciculture and is doing a lot of hard work back in Romania to enforce the law, fight poaching and also stock public waters so don't imagine it's like in the middle ages back there. People doing what these lads are doing would be in just as much if not more trouble back home.

I think to a great extent, racism is a generational thing as is poaching or keeping fish to eat. I can't picture a lot of 30y/old 'EE's taking to gut and fillet a carp. Myself am not even bothered to clean the scales of a salmon fillet. So in time it will all be resolved.

All I was trying to do here, is to explain that this attitude is only hurtful to a group of people who are actually decent; obviously if you're a low class, poaching thug you won't be bothered by someone calling you 'EE' whatever comes after. Point is gentlemen, if there are decent 'EE' people fishing C&R, we should not use pejorative phrases on an entire community.

Also thanks for sharing your observations and experiences on the matter, if everyone would only point to cases of concern rather then generalize all would come to a good result faster.

[Nige Johns]

Alex,if I were to meet any fish thieves who weren’t financially,socially and intellectually vulnerable as you put it then I could have a normal conversation with them to try and educate them,but as they all are,appear or act as thick as s**t,then they are treated according to their perceived intellectual level.

[Scrfishing]

Alex, no they don’t all brag about cooking pike but a lot of them do. I’ve got them as a friend on Facebook & they always post the pictures too. Like any culture/religion etc there is always decent people but like I said it’s the bad people that drag others down

[Happy Hayes]

Hi Alex first of all I’d like to say welcome to the pit .
Secondly well done on coming on the pit and expressing your feelings about the terminology EEs .
I can’t understand how you feel that the terminology EE is offensive or racist .
I myself come from an Irish background , so therefore I’m in many circles referred to as a paddy / a mick , and in some cases much worse
The last one being nothing to do with the Irish ( life’s to short pal )
Unfortunately for you ,there are many Eastern Europeans that don’t play by our rules ,and think it’s their god given right to turn up at any water they like and decimate the Fish stocks .
Being educated or not is not an excuse.
I know of two waters ,that they would have had to climb over fences , with private property signs ,no fishing signs etc
Educated or not if there’s a high fence , even the thickest f**k would know they shouldn’t be there .
As for it being an age thing I disagree.
It’s not just the older generation taking for the pot ,there was an incident on a water I fish, where there was a group of Eastern Europeans walking around
With the usual spinning rods , no mats etc . They were witnessed catching several fish and putting them in a bag .when approached they were very aggressive
They were no older than forty .
Unfortunately I wasn’t on the water that day .( as they say you only live once , you only die once )
As for some waters being over stocked ! Why should said waters let them catch them and charge them ,if they want th eat carp they can go to Sainsbury’s.
These waters are there for the match man , not some t***s .
As they say Alex
When in Rome do as the Romans’ do , unfortunately these people are abusing our hospitality and f*****g it for good people like yourself.
I’m hoping you take this as it’s ment , it’s not Aimed at you , but the people that are f*****g with our waters .
Regards
Tom

[spincityfan]

Welcome to the forum Alex.

I've must say, your English is impeccable!

[Kev Berry]

I don't give a fook about the good EE's----its the bad ones I am bothered about. There are not enough good ones tackling the bad ones to change attitudes.
EA bailiff rang me for a chat today, he was up on the Keadby, got a big problem up there with EE's, he had collared one that morning and the other 8 all ran off leaving their tackle.

Alex welcome to the forum---take note to read what it says in red above the no fishing section---none of us on here tolerate fish thieves and they get the lashing they deserve.

Alan regarding river fish, there are size limits and numbers ---BUT there are club rules saying all fish to be returned, round here the EA bailiffs are very much on top of thieving from the river ---even though you see few prosecutions for it.

[alex.ch]

Hi there Tom, thanks for the welcome.

'Do what the Romans do' also depends on the Romans' behavior as for the hospitality (cringe) we don't get a lot of that. I was rejected at 30 interviews over a span of 2 years before opening my own business which actually does very well. (I graduated from architecture)

Look the problem isn't with the terminology is with the comments that follow. So what if myself and other C&R anglers would think - oh so if they do insist to put us in one pot, let's actually do take fish because we're looked at as the scum of the earth anyway. Obviously it'd all be legal: you're allowed to keep one pike at under 65 cm per day from public waters. Hence, say 10,000 decent, previously C&R, Eastern European anglers start benefiting from this law. Say we'd keep 50 pike per season, roughly one a week. That adds to half a million less pike in the waters the following year. Now I personally would not take part to that because I can't kill a fish even if I'd want to prove a point, but most normal people don't have this issue.

So if anyone actually cares about resolving this issue along with other environmental problems, blaming and shaming an entire nationality or group of nationalities is not the way going forward. If it's a just less mediatised opportunity to express xenophobia and hate then yeah, go for it!

[alex.ch]

Welcome to the forum Alex.

I've must say, your English is impeccable!

Thank you very much, spincityfan. I must say I have a bit of an English accent too because of running a business, would clients hear me speak with the 'EE' accent, they would expect to pay much less!

[alex.ch]

I don't give a fook about the good EE's----its the bad ones I am bothered about. There are not enough good ones tackling the bad ones to change attitudes.
EA bailiff rang me for a chat today, he was up on the Keadby, got a big problem up there with EE's, he had collared one that morning and the other 8 all ran off leaving their tackle.

Alex welcome to the forum---take note to read what it says in red above the no fishing section---none of us on here tolerate fish thieves and they get the lashing they deserve.

Alan regarding river fish, there are size limits and numbers ---BUT there are club rules saying all fish to be returned, round here the EA bailiffs are very much on top of thieving from the river ---even though you see few prosecutions for it.

Thanks Kev,

I personally spoke to about 10 'EE' anglers I met on the banks in these last 6 months. Out of the 10, 8 were very professional just like the rest of us. The other 2, did not have EA licenses and were fishing for food. One was ledgering for perch on worm and the other was float fishing for course. I showed them to where to buy licenses and explained that in the UK it's bad to keep fish because there aren't many around and there are other environmental problems, but if they do keep, I read the rules from EA. Now I think this was a good start at least because they thought the EA licence is very cheap seemend like they would buy one - in Romania it's about 50 euros per year and they were expecting to have to pay much more here.

[Kev Berry]

I don't give a fook about the good EE's----its the bad ones I am bothered about. There are not enough good ones tackling the bad ones to change attitudes.
EA bailiff rang me for a chat today, he was up on the Keadby, got a big problem up there with EE's, he had collared one that morning and the other 8 all ran off leaving their tackle.

Alex welcome to the forum---take note to read what it says in red above the no fishing section---none of us on here tolerate fish thieves and they get the lashing they deserve.

Alan regarding river fish, there are size limits and numbers ---BUT there are club rules saying all fish to be returned, round here the EA bailiffs are very much on top of thieving from the river ---even though you see few prosecutions for it.

Thanks Kev,

I personally spoke to about 10 'EE' anglers I met on the banks in these last 6 months. Out of the 10, 8 were very professional just like the rest of us. The other 2, did not have EA licenses and were fishing for food. One was ledgering for perch on worm and the other was float fishing for course. I showed them to where to buy licenses and explained that in the UK it's bad to keep fish because there aren't many around and there are other environmental problems, but if they do keep, I read the rules from EA. Now I think this was a good start at least because they thought the EA licence is very cheap seemend like they would buy one - in Romania it's about 50 euros per year and they were expecting to have to pay much more here.

Alex, firstly most of those stealing fish soon learn (from other fish thieves) not to fish in the day time, usual time round here for them to turn up is midnight.
It is no use telling them what the EA "rules" are. EA rules regarding removing fish do NOT apply to private waters or club controlled waters, most waters ARE private or club controlled. I have had plenty of EE poachers use this as an excuse when caught taking fish.
Not only is a rod licence required ---most waters are private and a membership book or day ticket needs to be purchased.