PAC Books

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barnsy
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PAC Books

Post by barnsy »

Okay, from the outset I need to openly acknowledge that I am someone who has been passionate about piking since childhood (30+ years), but has 'contributed' basically nothing besides trying to steer others right, in terms of fish care, ethics etc. I'm not trying to be the boss of anything.

I'm not a venerated author, or notable captor. I haven't made any vast donations in terms of money or time.
But I have always cared about our sport, and the way things are going.

Having been a PAC member as a kid, and then giving up my membership for years as a student and subsequently a low earner, I have recently rejoined, to see what the craic is.

Having seen the accounting reported in May 2024 pikelines, I am wondering why I, or anyone else should join?

It appears that all of the income goes on the mag and the convention. Basically nothing goes on the preservation of piking, all of which is done voluntarily by members and non-members alike.
Is it time that the mag was scrapped? the joining fee is frankly exclusory, as-though only a certain type of person were welcome, which is not becoming of angling in this day and age, and especially not of pike angling...
Supporting a convention I can still understand, despite personally never being free to attend. But that would require far lower subs...
Any charity I associate with that has a newsletter, that newsletter is produced by the members FOC. I would never dream of associating with any charity that spent it's income on a flashy mag.
So I think the club needs to decide whether it's going to provide nice member benefits, such as fish-in's that ordinary people have a genuine chance of attending, meaningful store discounts, or whatever, and SELL those to prospective members, AND /OR deliver COST SUPPORTED CHARITABLE ENDEAVOURS. Because doing neither is inspiring nobody and justifying no costs.

Thank you for your time.

P.S.
I anticipate a number of replies along the lines of 'Networking', 'Supporting', 'Educating'....via the PAC. My question is, which of your activities could not have happened, without the subscription charge as it is?
Much love, JB
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Re: PAC Books

Post by Clacker »

Afternoon, if you want some information and advice you can ask the horses mouth, me. I’ll happily put some of your comments right and help bring you up to speed.

Regards Damian.
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Re: PAC Books

Post by suffolk si »

Mmm… don’t know where to start , people better qualified than me will answer I’m sure but I would guess that the suggestion PAC spends nothing on pike preservation will rattle a few cages to say the least. The magazine is imo an excellent one and serves far more than just being a “ newsletter” . That’s just for for starters…
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Re: PAC Books

Post by davelumb »

barnsy wrote: Fri Jun 21 2024 04:03 -
Okay, from the outset I need to openly acknowledge that I am someone who has been passionate about piking since childhood (30+ years), but has 'contributed' basically nothing besides trying to steer others right, in terms of fish care, ethics etc. I'm not trying to be the boss of anything.

I'm not a venerated author, or notable captor. I haven't made any vast donations in terms of money or time.
But I have always cared about our sport, and the way things are going.

Having been a PAC member as a kid, and then giving up my membership for years as a student and subsequently a low earner, I have recently rejoined, to see what the craic is.

Having seen the accounting reported in May 2024 pikelines, I am wondering why I, or anyone else should join?

It appears that all of the income goes on the mag and the convention. Basically nothing goes on the preservation of piking, all of which is done voluntarily by members and non-members alike.
Is it time that the mag was scrapped? the joining fee is frankly exclusory, as-though only a certain type of person were welcome, which is not becoming of angling in this day and age, and especially not of pike angling...
Supporting a convention I can still understand, despite personally never being free to attend. But that would require far lower subs...
Any charity I associate with that has a newsletter, that newsletter is produced by the members FOC. I would never dream of associating with any charity that spent it's income on a flashy mag.
So I think the club needs to decide whether it's going to provide nice member benefits, such as fish-in's that ordinary people have a genuine chance of attending, meaningful store discounts, or whatever, and SELL those to prospective members, AND /OR deliver COST SUPPORTED CHARITABLE ENDEAVOURS. Because doing neither is inspiring nobody and justifying no costs.

Thank you for your time.

P.S.
I anticipate a number of replies along the lines of 'Networking', 'Supporting', 'Educating'....via the PAC. My question is, which of your activities could not have happened, without the subscription charge as it is?
Much love, JB
Turning this round, what aspects of pike preservation do you think the money could be spent on?

The way it's worked when I've been involved with PAC committees is that Pikelines and events are seen as the bait that draws in members. Unlike some other special interest groups anglers are'nt known for altruistically parting with their money. When they support a 'good cause'. Look at the Angling Trust for example. They want something tangible in return.

The excess income after producing the mag, running events etc. is what's used to fund the pike preservation efforts - mostly covering volunteers' expenses incurred with letter writing and travelling to meetings.
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Re: PAC Books

Post by barnsy »

Apologies all for posing this and then disappearing. I'm just getting my act together after a bout of covid and catching up with work etc.
Thank you for the replies!
Reading my post back, it does sound more critical/ confrontational than I'd intended. My line of questioning is deliberately blunt, but the fact is that if people are happy....fair enough!

I'm just looking for what I can tell people when they ask what the point of joining is.
Magazines are not what they once were in terms of valuable insight. When I was a kid in the 80's/and early 90's, pikelines, or speaking to other pikers, was basically the only way I could find out about recent developments in the field. It simply doesn't serve that purpose now, and I suspect is harder to 'sell' to younger and younger audiences.
I suspect most young pikers would rather have a decent discount at a competitive online store, and maybe an online only mag.
Other people, like myself are actually interested in what the PAC is doing for pike, and what has happened because I pay subs, that wouldn't have otherwise.
You need a good 'elevator pitch' to get mates interested...
I understand that with a new committee in place, working to make various changes, now maybe isn't the time to press the matter, and I should see what happens. I was just surprised to see the breakdown as it has been.
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Re: PAC Books

Post by Cyprio »

barnsy wrote: Sun Jun 30 2024 20:26 -
Apologies all for posing this and then disappearing. I'm just getting my act together after a bout of covid and catching up with work etc.
Thank you for the replies!
Reading my post back, it does sound more critical/ confrontational than I'd intended. My line of questioning is deliberately blunt, but the fact is that if people are happy....fair enough!

I'm just looking for what I can tell people when they ask what the point of joining is.
Magazines are not what they once were in terms of valuable insight. When I was a kid in the 80's/and early 90's, pikelines, or speaking to other pikers, was basically the only way I could find out about recent developments in the field. It simply doesn't serve that purpose now, and I suspect is harder to 'sell' to younger and younger audiences.
I suspect most young pikers would rather have a decent discount at a competitive online store, and maybe an online only mag.
Other people, like myself are actually interested in what the PAC is doing for pike, and what has happened because I pay subs, that wouldn't have otherwise.
You need a good 'elevator pitch' to get mates interested...
I understand that with a new committee in place, working to make various changes, now maybe isn't the time to press the matter, and I should see what happens. I was just surprised to see the breakdown as it has been.
Yes your post did read like a witch hunt, and I don’t understand the comment;
“the joining fee is frankly exclusory”

I get why you ask what is the PAC doing when previous committee may have not engaged as well as they could have done with the member's but moving forward this is changing starting since May.
Here’s My take on why it is still a great Club.


So on one part PACGB promotes/campaigns for fish welfare and safe handling. Getting involved with other clubs and fisheries stopping the unnecessary removal and killing of pike, or advising on best handling practice and tackle guides.

Having Nationwide healthy membership the members are not only our eyes and ears but also the backbone that makes the PAC a strong voice to be taken seriously (as had been said before it’s like an insurance policy) when it comes to Protecting Pike and also fisheries as we need healthy coarse fish for healthy pike stocks. Don’t forget the PAC has been a single species club for 47 years.

For members, you do get a quarterly magazine with articles related to pike etc but more importantly the PAC brings Pike anglers together. The social side (I can vouch for my Suffolk 08 region😉) is excellent, we have monthly meetings with speaker nights and several social fishing days throughout the winter.
The PAC has its regions with RO’s in direct contact with its Piker’s
This is where the comment it’s what you put in fits well.
I have had members turn up at meetings who would not normally have a social side to their pike fishing, now they not only support us they actually enjoy their pike fishing with others.
Education is important every day is a learning day. There’s nothing wrong in bringing Pikers together which helps spread the word that Pike need our support and we can do our best to keep them looked after for the future.

Be interested if you are active with a region or not.

Andy
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Re: PAC Books

Post by davelumb »

barnsy wrote: Sun Jun 30 2024 20:26 -
Apologies all for posing this and then disappearing. I'm just getting my act together after a bout of covid and catching up with work etc.
Thank you for the replies!
Reading my post back, it does sound more critical/ confrontational than I'd intended. My line of questioning is deliberately blunt, but the fact is that if people are happy....fair enough!

I'm just looking for what I can tell people when they ask what the point of joining is.
Magazines are not what they once were in terms of valuable insight. When I was a kid in the 80's/and early 90's, pikelines, or speaking to other pikers, was basically the only way I could find out about recent developments in the field. It simply doesn't serve that purpose now, and I suspect is harder to 'sell' to younger and younger audiences.
I suspect most young pikers would rather have a decent discount at a competitive online store, and maybe an online only mag.
Other people, like myself are actually interested in what the PAC is doing for pike, and what has happened because I pay subs, that wouldn't have otherwise.
You need a good 'elevator pitch' to get mates interested...
I understand that with a new committee in place, working to make various changes, now maybe isn't the time to press the matter, and I should see what happens. I was just surprised to see the breakdown as it has been.
Good luck negotiating a discount with an online store that's already in a competitive market place. :laughs:

PAAS (not Prince Albert...) has gone to a digital mag, as I believe LAS. It saves money but it's not the same. But maybe that's an olde persons perspective, and younger anglers would be happy with a virtual mag. However, I do think the production values of Pikelines are too high and fewer, thinner pages would be acceptable.
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Re: PAC Books

Post by Esoxuk »

From my personal perspective the magazine is an excellent shop window for the PAC.
The quarterly committee reports may be boring but they do keep members updated on what is currently happening regarding campaigns and issues within piking, quite often some issues are withheld until being resolved to avoid outside influence (usually well intended) from escalating a problem.
The articles that are run are of our events or from other pike anglers, even though it may not be pike specific and are genuine articles for the magazine not copied and pasted from other sources. The club is always desperate for good content irrespective of it being an account of someone's days fishing, a campaign that proved successful or otherwise or even something instructive (but safe) that may improve the pike fishing of others.
Finally there's the region section where RO's have a point of contact with members within their area, in particular the ones who do not attend meetings.
The quality of its production reflects the professionalism of the club, you the members, deserve this not a badly photocopied couple of pages sporadically sent out full of spelling mistakes and dodgy photo's.
As for the accounts, they are produced to a professional standard which are far more detailed than the ones issued in the magazine and can be subject to review by Inland Revenue etc. These should be available at the AGM, being held after the Convention this September.
Unfortunately they do not reflect or record the time and effort the committee, RA's or RO's put into the running of the club for free, I'm certain that if this had been paid out on a hourly basis the club would have been insolvent many years ago.
R.O. Rotherham & Sheffield PAC (RA99)
PAC Products Manager
barnsy
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Re: PAC Books

Post by barnsy »

Cyprio wrote: Sun Jun 30 2024 21:03 -
barnsy wrote: Sun Jun 30 2024 20:26 -
Apologies all for posing this and then disappearing. I'm just getting my act together after a bout of covid and catching up with work etc.
Thank you for the replies!
Reading my post back, it does sound more critical/ confrontational than I'd intended. My line of questioning is deliberately blunt, but the fact is that if people are happy....fair enough!

I'm just looking for what I can tell people when they ask what the point of joining is.
Magazines are not what they once were in terms of valuable insight. When I was a kid in the 80's/and early 90's, pikelines, or speaking to other pikers, was basically the only way I could find out about recent developments in the field. It simply doesn't serve that purpose now, and I suspect is harder to 'sell' to younger and younger audiences.
I suspect most young pikers would rather have a decent discount at a competitive online store, and maybe an online only mag.
Other people, like myself are actually interested in what the PAC is doing for pike, and what has happened because I pay subs, that wouldn't have otherwise.
You need a good 'elevator pitch' to get mates interested...
I understand that with a new committee in place, working to make various changes, now maybe isn't the time to press the matter, and I should see what happens. I was just surprised to see the breakdown as it has been.
Yes your post did read like a witch hunt, and I don’t understand the comment;
“the joining fee is frankly exclusory”

I get why you ask what is the PAC doing when previous committee may have not engaged as well as they could have done with the member's but moving forward this is changing starting since May.
Here’s My take on why it is still a great Club.


So on one part PACGB promotes/campaigns for fish welfare and safe handling. Getting involved with other clubs and fisheries stopping the unnecessary removal and killing of pike, or advising on best handling practice and tackle guides.

Having Nationwide healthy membership the members are not only our eyes and ears but also the backbone that makes the PAC a strong voice to be taken seriously (as had been said before it’s like an insurance policy) when it comes to Protecting Pike and also fisheries as we need healthy coarse fish for healthy pike stocks. Don’t forget the PAC has been a single species club for 47 years.

For members, you do get a quarterly magazine with articles related to pike etc but more importantly the PAC brings Pike anglers together. The social side (I can vouch for my Suffolk 08 region😉) is excellent, we have monthly meetings with speaker nights and several social fishing days throughout the winter.
The PAC has its regions with RO’s in direct contact with its Piker’s
This is where the comment it’s what you put in fits well.
I have had members turn up at meetings who would not normally have a social side to their pike fishing, now they not only support us they actually enjoy their pike fishing with others.
Education is important every day is a learning day. There’s nothing wrong in bringing Pikers together which helps spread the word that Pike need our support and we can do our best to keep them looked after for the future.

Be interested if you are active with a region or not.

Andy
Hi Andy
What I meant by exclusory, was that some people won't join because they can't (or don't want to) pay it, and if most of the good work is done at no cost, that's a loss to the club and its aims.
To take it to extremes, if membership were free, I think the clubs numbers, and influence, would explode.
Real-world, there are clearly always going to be some overheads, but I'd be interested to know what prospective members' thoughts are when, for example, comparing membership with and without a hard copy of the mag and it's associated costs. Same with some other expenditures, but the mag is the easiest example.
I am guessing the ‘spell checking’ is done for free (if not I am happy to volunteer to do it for free), and so, if I'm reading it right, a good 50% of a member’s fees could be saved by going digital with it, all the nice articles and useful info remaining exactly the same?
People make good points in their comments about what the PAC achieves, and I am not doubting that in any way. What I am interested in, is which of those achievements are dependent on subscription fees, as people keep describing really great things that they do on what sounds like an entirely voluntary basis...
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Re: PAC Books

Post by Cyprio »

barnsy wrote: Wed Jul 03 2024 21:15 -
Cyprio wrote: Sun Jun 30 2024 21:03 -
barnsy wrote: Sun Jun 30 2024 20:26 -
Apologies all for posing this and then disappearing. I'm just getting my act together after a bout of covid and catching up with work etc.
Thank you for the replies!
Reading my post back, it does sound more critical/ confrontational than I'd intended. My line of questioning is deliberately blunt, but the fact is that if people are happy....fair enough!

I'm just looking for what I can tell people when they ask what the point of joining is.
Magazines are not what they once were in terms of valuable insight. When I was a kid in the 80's/and early 90's, pikelines, or speaking to other pikers, was basically the only way I could find out about recent developments in the field. It simply doesn't serve that purpose now, and I suspect is harder to 'sell' to younger and younger audiences.
I suspect most young pikers would rather have a decent discount at a competitive online store, and maybe an online only mag.
Other people, like myself are actually interested in what the PAC is doing for pike, and what has happened because I pay subs, that wouldn't have otherwise.
You need a good 'elevator pitch' to get mates interested...
I understand that with a new committee in place, working to make various changes, now maybe isn't the time to press the matter, and I should see what happens. I was just surprised to see the breakdown as it has been.
Yes your post did read like a witch hunt, and I don’t understand the comment;
“the joining fee is frankly exclusory”

I get why you ask what is the PAC doing when previous committee may have not engaged as well as they could have done with the member's but moving forward this is changing starting since May.
Here’s My take on why it is still a great Club.


So on one part PACGB promotes/campaigns for fish welfare and safe handling. Getting involved with other clubs and fisheries stopping the unnecessary removal and killing of pike, or advising on best handling practice and tackle guides.

Having Nationwide healthy membership the members are not only our eyes and ears but also the backbone that makes the PAC a strong voice to be taken seriously (as had been said before it’s like an insurance policy) when it comes to Protecting Pike and also fisheries as we need healthy coarse fish for healthy pike stocks. Don’t forget the PAC has been a single species club for 47 years.

For members, you do get a quarterly magazine with articles related to pike etc but more importantly the PAC brings Pike anglers together. The social side (I can vouch for my Suffolk 08 region😉) is excellent, we have monthly meetings with speaker nights and several social fishing days throughout the winter.
The PAC has its regions with RO’s in direct contact with its Piker’s
This is where the comment it’s what you put in fits well.
I have had members turn up at meetings who would not normally have a social side to their pike fishing, now they not only support us they actually enjoy their pike fishing with others.
Education is important every day is a learning day. There’s nothing wrong in bringing Pikers together which helps spread the word that Pike need our support and we can do our best to keep them looked after for the future.

Be interested if you are active with a region or not.

Andy
Hi Andy
What I meant by exclusory, was that some people won't join because they can't (or don't want to) pay it, and if most of the good work is done at no cost, that's a loss to the club and its aims.
To take it to extremes, if membership were free, I think the clubs numbers, and influence, would explode.
Real-world, there are clearly always going to be some overheads, but I'd be interested to know what prospective members' thoughts are when, for example, comparing membership with and without a hard copy of the mag and it's associated costs. Same with some other expenditures, but the mag is the easiest example.
I am guessing the ‘spell checking’ is done for free (if not I am happy to volunteer to do it for free), and so, if I'm reading it right, a good 50% of a member’s fees could be saved by going digital with it, all the nice articles and useful info remaining exactly the same?
People make good points in their comments about what the PAC achieves, and I am not doubting that in any way. What I am interested in, is which of those achievements are dependent on subscription fees, as people keep describing really great things that they do on what sounds like an entirely voluntary basis...
My post was to balance the view, no one forced you to join. The same way no one forced me to Get involved. The difference is became active to make some changes happen.
There is still so much good the PAC has to offer Pike Anglers, ask any of my region's members.
They get more out of being a member than they ever did.
Oh and for the Pikelines you loath they make alot of contributions to it and get great satisfaction knowing others are reading it.
The Club side is the Club side. Its not like the RNLI where the volunteers risk their lives whilst the management pay 40% tax.

ITS 2024 to pay for something is the norm not exclusory.

Put it this way you have continued since your renewal to express your opinions about the Accounts of the PAC.
Starting on FB and as you didn't get the response you were expecting on there you have now expressed your view on an independent platform.
Not once have you contacted the General Secretary of the PAC. :shrug:
Its like telling tales out of school. :roll:
Andy Carpenter
barnsy
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Re: PAC Books

Post by barnsy »

Please don't take this personally mate, I'm not some troll looking to upset people. It's good that changes are happening, and as I said before, I maybe chose the wrong time to raise this.
The reason I have kept replying is that I'm not sure I've explained myself properly, people seem to be responding to a different question than the one I asked.
I do not 'loathe' Pikelines, I grew up adoring it, I just think that if people could read it on their tablet and save half the membership price.........there'd be more members.
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