50lb BS single strand Ti traces

[peteren]

I prefer single strand Ti traces, and don't like crimps. Happy knotting knot2 kinky / Cahira Nitinol (same stuff?) in 12lb BS for perch / jacks, but want around 50lb BS single strand Ti traces for pike. Knotting thicker Cahira too untidy and sharp ends; too brittle for haywire twist and wraps. Anything you can recommend, please?

I liked made-up ET Predator Gord Burton ones I had - with neat wrapped loops - but lost last one, and can't find them on web. Any 50lb BS single strand Ti that you can homemake traces without crimps, but with haywire twist and wraps, or neat wrapped loops, please?

[Steve Dennington]

Have you tried annealing the wire to see if it will take a twist?

It probably won't, but could be worth a try. Why the aversion to crimps, Peter?

[JohnCopeman]

Dont put heat anywhere near Ti wire.....it will goose it.
Why not crimp Peter???? Slim double crimps " may" slip but they won't come undone.
Tractor Steve whips a mean trace up........he is very precise as you can imagine.
7 strand Ti is a lot more reliable crimped as it doesn't seem to change diameter/ stretch under load as easily.

[peteren]

I find 1-strand more durable, and less prone to "flip-over" tangles when casting eg. spinnerbaits, with it's stiffness.

John -

7 strand Ti is a lot more reliable crimped as it doesn't seem to change diameter/ stretch under load as easily.

- is the sort of concern that has put me off crimping it!

What are best crimps, tool and method for 40lb Cahira Nitinol, please?

[JohnCopeman]

AFW short sleeves in #3.....pack of 36 for under 3 quid.. SF is a good bet....or ET..Eddie buys in bulk and sells bags of 25... All the cup to cone pliers appear the same...Fox, Grey's, SPRO, ET etc and all do a good job.
SG do some double crimps in a pack of 50 for less than a fiver...cup to cup for these. I use Korda pliers and never had an issue/ fail but some guys don't rate them. Mine are probably getting on for ten years old.

[Steve Le maitre]

EC7D286C-CE8B-4C06-841A-235C40FAECFC.jpeg

B6CD1EEE-2D57-4CD8-B31F-32E7F0B6CF0D.jpeg

I’ve never had a single strand ti leader break Peter but you need to be careful when forming it, probably the easiest wire to weaken. Knotting it might not look as pretty as crimping but it is bomb proof. You should never need to worry about multi strand ti letting you down if crimped correctly.
ti is expensive so just make up short leaders to do all your bench testing on. When knotting solid ti leave a fair sized eye and you really need to find something to put in the eye when you are pulling the knot down tight, this stops the eye from closing down as you pull the knot down tight. The ti should stretch when seating the knot.

[Steve Le maitre]

This is 130lb AFW twisted Peter, it would be nice if you could do the same with solid ti........

DCAFE9FD-A888-4FD0-97BF-196F918907EB.jpeg

unfortunately you are never going to twist solid ti so it’s either crimp it or knot it or look elsewhere.

[peteren]

Thanks all.
Steve - I'll re-try with

something to put in the eye when you are pulling the knot down tight,

and try to get those nasty sharp tags under the swivel, like yours!

Zoom in on top of pic, for hazy blow-up of the made-up ET Predator Gord Burton ones I liked - with neat wrapped loops. Single strand - but maybe not Ti?

Can't now find them on web.

trace GB.JPG

[Mark_Houghton]

Thanks all.
Steve - I'll re-try with

something to put in the eye when you are pulling the knot down tight,

and try to get those nasty sharp tags under the swivel, like yours!

Zoom in on top of pic, for hazy blow-up of the made-up ET Predator Gord Burton ones I liked - with neat wrapped loops. Single strand - but maybe not Ti?

Can't now find them on web.
trace GB.JPG

Peter, I got some 40lb single strand Cahira from Andy when he first started selling it. Knotted up perfectly without any issues. Those GB traces look like normal single strand jerkbait wire, going by the twists. Used that wire quite a lot in the past and it lasts pretty well, you do have to straighten the odd bend in use, but it`s pretty kink free.

[peteren]

Thanks Mark, excuse my ignorance, but any links / leads or comments on sourcing, and merit of, "normal single strand jerkbait wire" (- found nothing googling it!) ?

[Mark_Houghton]

Thanks Mark, excuse my ignorance, but any links / leads or comments on sourcing, and merit of, "normal single strand jerkbait wire" (- found nothing googling it!) ?

Rok Max UK used to sell AFW single strand leader wire Peter, not sure if they still do. Google "single strand leader wire" and you should get some results....

[JoeNickel]

I've crimped single strand Ti (K2K) for a few years, never had a problem. 55lb, 75lb and 100lb. Though the 100lb is a bit harder to work with.

Someone recently has said the tension needed to perceptably thin the diameter (ie. what might cause a slipping crimp) is way beyond what you'll be able to apply in a fishing scenario.

[Mark_Houghton]

I've crimped single strand Ti (K2K) for a few years, never had a problem. 55lb, 75lb and 100lb. Though the 100lb is a bit harder to work with.

Someone recently has said the tension needed to perceptably thin the diameter (ie. what might cause a slipping crimp) is way beyond what you'll be able to apply in a fishing scenario.

I`m sure John M posted a while back mentioning a crimp bursting open after a period of time, on a crimped 40lb Cahira trace. Worth keeping an eye out for that happening on older traces.

[JohnCopeman]

I've crimped single strand Ti (K2K) for a few years, never had a problem. 55lb, 75lb and 100lb. Though the 100lb is a bit harder to work with.

Someone recently has said the tension needed to perceptably thin the diameter (ie. what might cause a slipping crimp) is way beyond what you'll be able to apply in a fishing scenario.

If you pull K2K in your hands between either end you will feel it stretch - to gain " length" it has to decrease in diameter. The inbuilt elasticity of The alloy allows this- that's why it has very little memory. If you can " stretch " a 12 inch length in your hands think what happens when you pull against a snag.
The crimps won't give up but the loops will tighten up against the swivel/ clip.

[Steve Le maitre]

Thanks all.
Steve - I'll re-try with

something to put in the eye when you are pulling the knot down tight,

and try to get those nasty sharp tags under the swivel, like yours!

Zoom in on top of pic, for hazy blow-up of the made-up ET Predator Gord Burton ones I liked - with neat wrapped loops. Single strand - but maybe not Ti?

Can't now find them on web.
trace GB.JPG

The wraps on those leaders are not as strong as they could be, a haywire twist should be used.

[Mark Phillips]

Why not crimp - done properly, in my opinion it's stronger and more reliable than any knot. I make my single strand Ti leaders in various breaking strains using crimped connections and yet to have a connection fail on me during normal fishing conditions. I also used to sell them to a few of the chaps and unless I am mistaken, no complaints have been forthcoming. Like I said, all are crimped - simple, safe, reliable and neat. I really can't see why you wouldn't?

[JoeNickel]

I've crimped single strand Ti (K2K) for a few years, never had a problem. 55lb, 75lb and 100lb. Though the 100lb is a bit harder to work with.

Someone recently has said the tension needed to perceptably thin the diameter (ie. what might cause a slipping crimp) is way beyond what you'll be able to apply in a fishing scenario.

If you pull K2K in your hands between either end you will feel it stretch - to gain " length" it has to decrease in diameter. The inbuilt elasticity of The alloy allows this- that's why it has very little memory. If you can " stretch " a 12 inch length in your hands think what happens when you pull against a snag.
The crimps won't give up but the loops will tighten up against the swivel/ clip.

Appreciate that this happens in theory - but I've been using them for years with no issue. Three times through the crimp, no worries.

I once snagged, and pulled in by hand, a sunken rudder and handle from the back of a river barge. I'd have thought it weighed 25kg. No problem.

[Steve Dennington]

Appreciate that this happens in theory - but I've been using them for years with no issue. Three times through the crimp, no worries.

I once snagged, and pulled in by hand, a sunken rudder and handle from the back of a river barge. I'd have thought it weighed 25kg. No problem.

Same with all wire . Three times through is as secure as it gets

[JohnCopeman]

It happens more than in theory.....it happens in real life fishing situations.
If the crimp cannot slip under load then why put the tag end back through????

[peteren]

Interesting range of views!

Steve's tip -

something to put in the eye when you are pulling the knot down tight,

has helped my knotting; I'll try some more crimping too.

[Tony McTaggart]

Proper crimp size and good crimping tool helps with slippage.

[Mike J]

Thanks Mark, excuse my ignorance, but any links / leads or comments on sourcing, and merit of, "normal single strand jerkbait wire" (- found nothing googling it!) ?

Ive used single-strand stainless steel leader wire since the '80's, all of it came from the USA, I have 30lb and other sizes up to 270lb.
The heavier for sharks, 30 to 90 for pike, lure rigs and clips for trolling strip baits.
All my connections are a Haywire Twist, I have never crimped single-strand despite having crimps and cup tools.
A Haywire can also be constructed so it acts as a connector, a method I use for an open non slip loop attaching direct to the lure.

The big advantage that hasn't been mentioned is that single-strand leader wire can be broken by hand.

.

[JohnCopeman]

Why would breaking by hand be an advantage????

[Mike J]

Why would breaking by hand be an advantage????

There are two advantages.
When you finish a wrap the break is alongside the standing wire so there isn't the slightest sharp edge to catch on anything, the result is far superior to any cutter.

The break can be accomplished with one hand so a skilled deckie can use it to break-off a dangerous fish while his other hand controls the fish on the leader. It is why shark leaders are constructed with a short length of single-strand between the hook and the rubbing leader.

.

[Steve Le maitre]

Why would breaking by hand be an advantage????

It might be if a bloody Shark has your hand in his mouth and you can’t quite reach your cutters, with your free hand at least you can work the wire for a break

[peteren]

Thanks Mark, excuse my ignorance, but any links / leads or comments on sourcing, and merit of, "normal single strand jerkbait wire" (- found nothing googling it!) ?

Ive used single-strand stainless steel leader wire since the '80's, all of it came from the USA, I have 30lb and other sizes up to 270lb.
The heavier for sharks, 30 to 90 for pike, lure rigs and clips for trolling strip baits.
All my connections are a Haywire Twist, I have never crimped single-strand despite having crimps and cup tools.
A Haywire can also be constructed so it acts as a connector, a method I use for an open non slip loop attaching direct to the lure.

The big advantage that hasn't been mentioned is that single-strand leader wire can be broken by hand.

.

Mike - the single-strand stainless steel leader wire - may be the AFW single strand leader wire Mark H mentioned? Might try that with haywire, etc you describe. As I think it closest to the pictured ET Gord Burton traces I liked - and should be able to tie neatly and securely.

But then I suppose the single-handed breakability, implies more breakability risk and less long life, in normal use?

[Mike J]

Thanks Mark, excuse my ignorance, but any links / leads or comments on sourcing, and merit of, "normal single strand jerkbait wire" (- found nothing googling it!) ?

Ive used single-strand stainless steel leader wire since the '80's, all of it came from the USA, I have 30lb and other sizes up to 270lb.
The heavier for sharks, 30 to 90 for pike, lure rigs and clips for trolling strip baits.
All my connections are a Haywire Twist, I have never crimped single-strand despite having crimps and cup tools.
A Haywire can also be constructed so it acts as a connector, a method I use for an open non slip loop attaching direct to the lure.

The big advantage that hasn't been mentioned is that single-strand leader wire can be broken by hand.

.

Mike - the single-strand stainless steel leader wire - may be the AFW single strand leader wire Mark H mentioned? Might try that with haywire, etc you describe. As I think it closest to the pictured ET Gord Burton traces I liked - and should be able to tie neatly and securely.

But then I suppose the single-handed breakability, implies more breakability risk and less long life, in normal use?

Here you go.
Wire from #2 up to #20 something (29lb to heavy)
Mason Chrome Nickel Alloy, Seven Strand Stainless Steel and Prindle Fabbri Monel.

IMG_2336.JPG

NB GR1 TI wire was for bench testing, failed and rejected.

Single strand will break if badly kinked, hand breaking is acheived by rotation.
If you want to make perfect Haywire in light wire the easiest way is to use a tool made from a stainless washer.

IMG_2339.JPG

.



.

[tony myhill]

Now you have raised another question. How does that work. ?

[JohnCopeman]

PeterN pm me your address and I will post you a tool....
Mike J can put his washer back under his nut
Tool was from Harris Sportsmail yonks ago.....they sold single strand stainless wire too.
I used to use it for trolling on river as seven strand used to get " cut" rubbing over the metal work present.
I make barrel twists but I'm sure it used to be advertised as being capable of Haywire twists too.

[peteren]

Thanks John - PM.