Shallow diving lures for pike and perch

[Taffypiker]

The spinnerbait you use has a skirt which hides the hook so prevents a lot of snagging ?

I have some spinnerbait frames and I have attached a plastic shad to a jig head and was thinking of using this in the weedy sreas ?

No, the skirt doesn't do that much to mask the hooks (I always have two on my lures), it's the frame of the spinnerbait that deflects snags and weeds. It acts as a hook guard, which is why spinnerbaits work well in snaggy areas and through some weeds. A short arm is better in weed, as it offers less resistance, but still protects the hooks - a willow leaf blades slips though weed better as it is more streamline. I often use them to bounce off structure, not often you loose a spinnerbait to a snag, in fact it's very rare.

Another method is to vertically jig a spinnerbait into pockets or even just down the margins. I've had a lot of pike doing that. If it is totally choked up to the surface and the only option is to fish over it, use a weedless surface lure, like a Forgzilla. Hook up rate is OK, about 1 in 6 I'd say. But you get multiple takes from the same fish, even if you've pranged them, they keep having a go. I've even had pike land on the bank at my feet after chasing them down. I wouldn't want to be a frog in a pike infested water.

So you wouldn't cast out with a spinnerbait , preferring to drop it close to weed and structures ?

I was thinking on the estate lake I have a permit for that a cast of 20 yards will put a spinnerbait into the middle and I could draw it back over the weed , bouncing it like I would a bigger floating lure

[Mark Phillips]

The spinnerbait you use has a skirt which hides the hook so prevents a lot of snagging ?

I have some spinnerbait frames and I have attached a plastic shad to a jig head and was thinking of using this in the weedy sreas ?

No, the skirt doesn't do that much to mask the hooks (I always have two on my lures), it's the frame of the spinnerbait that deflects snags and weeds. It acts as a hook guard, which is why spinnerbaits work well in snaggy areas and through some weeds. A short arm is better in weed, as it offers less resistance, but still protects the hooks - a willow leaf blades slips though weed better as it is more streamline. I often use them to bounce off structure, not often you loose a spinnerbait to a snag, in fact it's very rare.

Another method is to vertically jig a spinnerbait into pockets or even just down the margins. I've had a lot of pike doing that. If it is totally choked up to the surface and the only option is to fish over it, use a weedless surface lure, like a Forgzilla. Hook up rate is OK, about 1 in 6 I'd say. But you get multiple takes from the same fish, even if you've pranged them, they keep having a go. I've even had pike land on the bank at my feet after chasing them down. I wouldn't want to be a frog in a pike infested water.

So you wouldn't cast out with a spinnerbait , preferring to drop it close to weed and structures ?

I was thinking on the estate lake I have a permit for that a cast of 20 yards will put a spinnerbait into the middle and I could draw it back over the weed , bouncing it like I would a bigger floating lure

I mainly cast and occasionally jig them. Depends on what's in front of you

[Taffypiker]

The spinnerbait you use has a skirt which hides the hook so prevents a lot of snagging ?

I have some spinnerbait frames and I have attached a plastic shad to a jig head and was thinking of using this in the weedy sreas ?

No, the skirt doesn't do that much to mask the hooks (I always have two on my lures), it's the frame of the spinnerbait that deflects snags and weeds. It acts as a hook guard, which is why spinnerbaits work well in snaggy areas and through some weeds. A short arm is better in weed, as it offers less resistance, but still protects the hooks - a willow leaf blades slips though weed better as it is more streamline. I often use them to bounce off structure, not often you loose a spinnerbait to a snag, in fact it's very rare.

Another method is to vertically jig a spinnerbait into pockets or even just down the margins. I've had a lot of pike doing that. If it is totally choked up to the surface and the only option is to fish over it, use a weedless surface lure, like a Forgzilla. Hook up rate is OK, about 1 in 6 I'd say. But you get multiple takes from the same fish, even if you've pranged them, they keep having a go. I've even had pike land on the bank at my feet after chasing them down. I wouldn't want to be a frog in a pike infested water.

So you wouldn't cast out with a spinnerbait , preferring to drop it close to weed and structures ?

I was thinking on the estate lake I have a permit for that a cast of 20 yards will put a spinnerbait into the middle and I could draw it back over the weed , bouncing it like I would a bigger floating lure

I mainly cast and occasionally jig them. Depends on what's in front of you

That's the problem , I have no idea

[Taffypiker]

The spinnerbait you use has a skirt which hides the hook so prevents a lot of snagging ?

I have some spinnerbait frames and I have attached a plastic shad to a jig head and was thinking of using this in the weedy sreas ?

No, the skirt doesn't do that much to mask the hooks (I always have two on my lures), it's the frame of the spinnerbait that deflects snags and weeds. It acts as a hook guard, which is why spinnerbaits work well in snaggy areas and through some weeds. A short arm is better in weed, as it offers less resistance, but still protects the hooks - a willow leaf blades slips though weed better as it is more streamline. I often use them to bounce off structure, not often you loose a spinnerbait to a snag, in fact it's very rare.

Another method is to vertically jig a spinnerbait into pockets or even just down the margins. I've had a lot of pike doing that. If it is totally choked up to the surface and the only option is to fish over it, use a weedless surface lure, like a Forgzilla. Hook up rate is OK, about 1 in 6 I'd say. But you get multiple takes from the same fish, even if you've pranged them, they keep having a go. I've even had pike land on the bank at my feet after chasing them down. I wouldn't want to be a frog in a pike infested water.

Thanks mate

I always thought the frog replica soft and hard baits were a con .....how wrong I was

[Mark Phillips]

Frog lures are exceptionally effective. Pike seem to go nuts for them, hooking those fish with what are essentially weedless lures remains the hard part, but they will have multiple attempts at them. I find if you can resist the urge to strike, then only set the hook when you feel the weight of the fish. I tend to look away as I retrieve them, which isn't easy to do. I have even let pike take them and turn, then struck. It can be frustrating to get so many takes for not so many fish landed, but it's really great fun.

The Frogzilla from Snag Proof lures is the best lure I have used - 6" in size, Gamakatsu hook and at 3/4 oz they are a decent weight, but you can squeeze them flat and then they'll fill with water, meaning they'll cast even further. I can get easily them 50 yards on a medium rated baitcasting set-up using 50lb braid. I always cast them onto the opposite bank on rivers and drains, then plop them in, dead stick them... then work them back, pausing now and again or resting on cover like a bit of weed or lilly pad, as a frog or toad would. I think they are discontinued now, but I've seen the odd one pop up on ebay and a few American tackle dealers still have them. I bought a stack of them years ago and even have some in their packaging unopened as spares, but so far I think I have only retired a couple - you can repair them with superglue - I'll quickly take one off my line if it gets too sliced up and pop on a fresh one. That's why I always carry half a dozen when fishing the drains or rivers. I use the black one most, then the green - with the yellow and white ones being better at either end of the day as the light fades. I am sure people can suggest similar frog lures that are easier to source, but until my supply is exhausted, I'll stick with my big kermits. You can literally retrieve them through and over anything and I mean anything. As for the takes, explosive and super aggressive. Pike literally want to destroy them.

[Daniel]

The spro king daddy is your only option if you want a lure of similar size to the frogzilla.

https://thepikeshop.co.uk/product/spro-king-daddy/

The savage gear fruck is an excellent, although smaller alternative, shop around for the best price.

[Taffypiker]

Frog lures are exceptionally effective. Pike seem to go nuts for them, hooking those fish with what are essentially weedless lures remains the hard part, but they will have multiple attempts at them. I find if you can resist the urge to strike, then only set the hook when you feel the weight of the fish. I tend to look away as I retrieve them, which isn't easy to do. I have even let pike take them and turn, then struck. It can be frustrating to get so many takes for not so many fish landed, but it's really great fun.

The Frogzilla from Snag Proof lures is the best lure I have used - 6" in size, Gamakatsu hook and at 3/4 oz they are a decent weight, but you can squeeze them flat and then they'll fill with water, meaning they'll cast even further. I can get easily them 50 yards on a medium rated baitcasting set-up using 50lb braid. I always cast them onto the opposite bank on rivers and drains, then plop them in, dead stick them... then work them back, pausing now and again or resting on cover like a bit of weed or lilly pad, as a frog or toad would. I think they are discontinued now, but I've seen the odd one pop up on ebay and a few American tackle dealers still have them. I bought a stack of them years ago and even have some in their packaging unopened as spares, but so far I think I have only retired a couple - you can repair them with superglue - I'll quickly take one off my line if it gets too sliced up and pop on a fresh one. That's why I always carry half a dozen when fishing the drains or rivers. I use the black one most, then the green - with the yellow and white ones being better at either end of the day as the light fades. I am sure people can suggest similar frog lures that are easier to source, but until my supply is exhausted, I'll stick with my big kermits. You can literally retrieve them through and over anything and I mean anything. As for the takes, explosive and super aggressive. Pike literally want to destroy them.

American I take it ?

I wonder , given that frogs are targeted by pike more than was once thought if those poor little ugly ducklings get hit every spring with as much intensity ?

[Taffypiker]

The spro king daddy is your only option if you want a lure of similar size to the frogzilla.

https://thepikeshop.co.uk/product/spro-king-daddy/

The savage gear fruck is an excellent, although smaller alternative, shop around for the best price.

You have caught on these ?

[Daniel]

The spro king daddy is your only option if you want a lure of similar size to the frogzilla.

https://thepikeshop.co.uk/product/spro-king-daddy/

The savage gear fruck is an excellent, although smaller alternative, shop around for the best price.

You have caught on these ?

Oh god yes, countless fish.
Savage gears suicide duck, bat and rat are great over open water, save the frogs for the areas you can't chuck hard baits.

[Taffypiker]

The spro king daddy is your only option if you want a lure of similar size to the frogzilla.

https://thepikeshop.co.uk/product/spro-king-daddy/

The savage gear fruck is an excellent, although smaller alternative, shop around for the best price.

You have caught on these ?

Oh god yes, countless fish.
Savage gears suicide duck, bat and rat are great over open water, save the frogs for the areas you can't chuck hard baits.

You wouldn't just lob em out twenty yards in the margins full of reed beds ?

[Daniel]

The spro king daddy is your only option if you want a lure of similar size to the frogzilla.

https://thepikeshop.co.uk/product/spro-king-daddy/

The savage gear fruck is an excellent, although smaller alternative, shop around for the best price.

You have caught on these ?

Oh god yes, countless fish.
Savage gears suicide duck, bat and rat are great over open water, save the frogs for the areas you can't chuck hard baits.

You wouldn't just lob em out twenty yards in the margins full of reed beds ?

As a rule if I can throw a hard bait in the swim, I will, the hook up rate is so much better than frogs.
Having said that, if I was only taking one bait, it would be a frog, because you can throw it anywhere and pike will attack it multiple times if you don't hook up.

[Taffypiker]

The spro king daddy is your only option if you want a lure of similar size to the frogzilla.

https://thepikeshop.co.uk/product/spro-king-daddy/

The savage gear fruck is an excellent, although smaller alternative, shop around for the best price.

You have caught on these ?

Oh god yes, countless fish.
Savage gears suicide duck, bat and rat are great over open water, save the frogs for the areas you can't chuck hard baits.

You wouldn't just lob em out twenty yards in the margins full of reed beds ?

As a rule if I can throw a hard bait in the swim, I will, the hook up rate is so much better than frogs.
Having said that, if I was only taking one bait, it would be a frog, because you can throw it anywhere and pike will attack it multiple times if you don't hook up.

When you are trying to nail pike on frogs are the frogs in season as it were .....as its generally the colder months ?

[Mark Phillips]

Pike instinctively go for anything that moves, be that frogs, voles, ducks, moorhens, etc. I've even seen a swallow get taken as it skimmed the water for a drink. Doesn't matter what time of year it is, food is food. Obviously when the water is cold, they're less active, which is why surface lures aren't as effective, but they do still work. But as Daniel is eluding, you only use weedless lures when you have to. Hook up rates are a problem, so I'll always want to use a shallow jerkbait as first choice of lure for fishing shallow, usually a Scout or Buster, may be a small mouse. If there's weed around, a spinner bait, a lot of it, a frog... so basically these are the main lures types I use from the bank... in the boat, I also use crank baits, mainly a straight depthraider and soft plastics with a shallow screw...

[Taffypiker]

Pike instinctively go for anything that moves, be that frogs, voles, ducks, moorhens, etc. I've even seen a swallow get taken as it skimmed the water for a drink. Doesn't matter what time of year it is, food is food. Obviously when the water is cold, they're less active, which is why surface lures aren't as effective, but they do still work. But as Daniel is eluding, you only use weedless lures when you have to. Hook up rates are a problem, so I'll always want to use a shallow jerkbait as first choice of lure for fishing shallow, usually a Scout or Buster, may be a small mouse. If there's weed around, a spinner bait, a lot of it, a frog... so basically these are the main lures types I use from the bank... in the boat, I also use crank baits, mainly a straight depthraider and soft plastics with a shallow screw...

Have you ever used a frog , mouse , duckling as a dead bait ? and any success ? Would the dead voles and mice sold by pet shops ever be worth a go ?

Obviously I am not going to ask you the same question regarding live baits as this is a public Internet forum

[Mark Phillips]

No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so.

[Taffypiker]

No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so.

Indeed I don't livebait in any way

But dead frogs , mice , voles etc ?

[Daniel]

No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so.

Indeed I don't livebait in any way

But dead frogs , mice , voles etc ?

I used to keep reptiles and tried dead mice for pike just for a laugh.
I certainly caught fish, but it would be an expensive way of fishing as you'll be lucky to get more than a couple of fish on one before it fell apart.

[Taffypiker]

No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so.

Indeed I don't livebait in any way

But dead frogs , mice , voles etc ?

I used to keep reptiles and tried dead mice for pike just for a laugh.
I certainly caught fish, but it would be an expensive way of fishing as you'll be lucky to get more than a couple of fish on one before it fell apart.

I am amazed they are such dustbins , I thought replica plastic baits were mostly a novelty

You learn something every day

[Mark Phillips]

No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so.

Indeed I don't livebait in any way

But dead frogs , mice , voles etc ?

I was referring to dead creatures you mentioned - notwithstanding the sanitary issues... getting a bit nutty mate. I'm out, cheers.

[Taffypiker]

No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so.

Indeed I don't livebait in any way

But dead frogs , mice , voles etc ?

I was referring to dead creatures you mentioned - notwithstanding the sanitary issues... getting a bit nutty mate. I'm out, cheers.

I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick

I was simply wondering if in the same way that if dead roach are used for pike I wondered if being as its clear that pike feed more on voles , frogs etc than was thought .....if pike anglers had ever had much luck with dead baits like vole , frog etc

[Steve Dennington]

I used to keep reptiles and tried dead mice for pike just for a laugh.
I certainly caught fish, but it would be an expensive way of fishing as you'll be lucky to get more than a couple of fish on one before it fell apart.

Same here. As a wobbled dead, they caught me a fish (just the one) but you certainly wouldn't go out of your way to buy them for fishing bait

[Mark Phillips]

No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so.

Indeed I don't livebait in any way

But dead frogs , mice , voles etc ?

I was referring to dead creatures you mentioned - notwithstanding the sanitary issues... getting a bit nutty mate. I'm out, cheers.

I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick

I was simply wondering if in the same way that if dead roach are used for pike I wondered if being as its clear that pike feed more on voles , frogs etc than was thought .....if pike anglers had ever had much luck with dead baits like vole , frog etc

No mate, I'm definitely holding the right end of the stick - so I'll bid you adieu and wish you good luck with your fishing

[Taffypiker]

No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so.

Indeed I don't livebait in any way

But dead frogs , mice , voles etc ?

I was referring to dead creatures you mentioned - notwithstanding the sanitary issues... getting a bit nutty mate. I'm out, cheers.

I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick

I was simply wondering if in the same way that if dead roach are used for pike I wondered if being as its clear that pike feed more on voles , frogs etc than was thought .....if pike anglers had ever had much luck with dead baits like vole , frog etc

No mate, I'm definitely holding the right end of the stick - so I'll bid you adieu and wish you good luck with your fishing

You most certainly were

I wasn't suggesting any use of live animals in any way for pike fishing , I don't livebait

I was making it clear that I was on about the use of dead frogs or voles in the same way we use dead roach or dead perch

Don't bother replying , if you want a discussion about this pm me , you won't get a reply on here , I don't appreciate your tone at all

[Taffypiker]

I used to keep reptiles and tried dead mice for pike just for a laugh.
I certainly caught fish, but it would be an expensive way of fishing as you'll be lucky to get more than a couple of fish on one before it fell apart.

Same here. As a wobbled dead, they caught me a fish (just the one) but you certainly wouldn't go out of your way to buy them for fishing bait

What's the difference between using dead , frozen voles that are used to feed snakes in this country and dead roach and perch ?

Pike clearly take voles , frogs etc in their live form , I am certain a dead vole would be taken

[Mark Phillips]

No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so.

Indeed I don't livebait in any way

But dead frogs , mice , voles etc ?

I was referring to dead creatures you mentioned - notwithstanding the sanitary issues... getting a bit nutty mate. I'm out, cheers.

I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick

I was simply wondering if in the same way that if dead roach are used for pike I wondered if being as its clear that pike feed more on voles , frogs etc than was thought .....if pike anglers had ever had much luck with dead baits like vole , frog etc

No mate, I'm definitely holding the right end of the stick - so I'll bid you adieu and wish you good luck with your fishing

You most certainly were

I wasn't suggesting any use of live animals in any way for pike fishing , I don't livebait

I was making it clear that I was on about the use of dead frogs or voles in the same way we use dead roach or dead perch

Don't bother replying , if you want a discussion about this pm me , you won't get a reply on here , I don't appreciate your tone at all

Well I will, as I am probably not the only person who finds your posts and comments a bit nutty and now you're getting yourself upset over nothing

I wrote, "No and I don't think anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't either. Using them live would see you getting prosecuted and rightly so."

The first sentence answers your question about dead baits. The second sentence is to your comments about use of live bait. You've never said you actually suggested doing that.

You can take a horse to water and all that. Shame, but I'm not getting caught up in this nonsense every time I try to help someone. Add Foe and that's adios

[Taffypiker]

Certainly a plonker

[OldTaff]

I fish a large and very shallow lake for pike and perch - due to its lack of depth the weed growth is immense and for most of the year you will lose any diving lure guaranteed.

Having watched a YouTube video on top water lure fishing I bought a cheap Amazon 5 pack of frogs for about £5 and they have been a revelation.I have not lost a lure this year and have banked pike to 15lb. I don’t suffer low hookup ratios because the hits are on the whole savage and if the pike fails to nail the lure first time it will repeatedly attack. They can be bounced off the tops of lilies and get smashed up as they plop into the water or dragged through sheets of weed with ease.

Following a recommendation from a guy I bump into regularly I’ve also purchased some Fox Rage Slick Stick SR lures in 4cm then swapped the trebles for singles. Used for the first time last week and they are superb, running less than a foot deep and hardly any snagging yet great hook up ratio plus simple unhooking. They’ve got me masses of perch to 3lb off a water I’ve only previously managed wasps from.

[Taffypiker]

I fish a large and very shallow lake for pike and perch - due to its lack of depth the weed growth is immense and for most of the year you will lose any diving lure guaranteed.

Having watched a YouTube video on top water lure fishing I bought a cheap Amazon 5 pack of frogs for about £5 and they have been a revelation.I have not lost a lure this year and have banked pike to 15lb. I don’t suffer low hookup ratios because the hits are on the whole savage and if the pike fails to nail the lure first time it will repeatedly attack. They can be bounced off the tops of lilies and get smashed up as they plop into the water or dragged through sheets of weed with ease.

Following a recommendation from a guy I bump into regularly I’ve also purchased some Fox Rage Slick Stick SR lures in 4cm then swapped the trebles for singles. Used for the first time last week and they are superb, running less than a foot deep and hardly any snagging yet great hook up ratio plus simple unhooking. They’ve got me masses of perch to 3lb off a water I’ve only previously managed wasps from.

Shallow crankbaits no good ?

[Steve Le maitre]

Taffy you’ve received lots of in-depth replies and much knowledge free of charge, a thank you is free too

[Taffypiker]

Taffy you’ve received lots of in-depth replies and much knowledge free of charge, a thank you is free too

Of course I am always appreciative of helpful advice