Flouro traces

Need a recommendation or advice on fishing tackle? Ask in here
nortchul
Stickleback
Stickleback
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 02 2018 20:51

Flouro traces

Post by nortchul » Thu Oct 17 2019 23:06

https://youtu.be/2OvRQN9IgBs
I left a few comments about this video, he is still selling flouro as the way forward claiming that he has been broken off using wire and to.
Am I just flogging a dead horse.

User avatar
Mike J
Barbel
Barbel
Posts: 4273
Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
Location: Wessex

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Mike J » Fri Oct 18 2019 00:25

Well atleast you've tried.

There is a saying 'you cannot polish a tu#d'
Very applicable in this case.

User avatar
Esoxuk
Perch
Perch
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Aug 29 2011 05:00
Location: Rotherham
Contact:

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Esoxuk » Fri Oct 18 2019 08:43

The guy's endorsing his sponsors product, its not too long ago that cigarette manufacturers were extolling the benefits of smoking.
At least he made the traces extra long to remove damaged sections, well the ones that don't disappear with the lure and pike anyway.
I simply cannot see the advantages that may be gained that's worth the risks involved when targeting pike.
R.O. Rotherham & Sheffield PAC (RA99)

User avatar
alan behenna
Chub
Chub
Posts: 2101
Joined: Mon Sep 14 2015 15:45
Location: Where Sheep are Nervous.

Re: Flouro traces

Post by alan behenna » Fri Oct 18 2019 08:53

Mike said:
There is a saying 'you cannot polish a tu#d'
Very True.

Just another self appointed "guru" who "knows best" and really is not at all concerned about the break-offs on this set up, only what £ he can get out of it.

:w****r:

User avatar
Metalscobes666
Jack Pike
Jack Pike
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jul 01 2016 12:15
Location: Omagh, Northern Ireland, UK
Contact:

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Metalscobes666 » Tue Nov 05 2019 14:39

I have this discussion quite a lot. Cards on the table I don’t like fluorocarbon for Pike full stop I do not think it is Pike safe.

Last season I pulled the remains of fluorocarbon bait traces out of Pikes throats now the human who made these went to the effort of shrink tubing the crimps and using owner hooks so clearly this is someone who's using quality equipment however the fact numerous breakoffs have happened it has me wondering why this human is still using fluorocarbon bait traces? I know a Pike fishing guide on the Erne who uses fluro bait traces I think this is a bad idea.

The points fans of fluro raise to me are:-

1. It's invisible in the water. (straw man argument as Pike are not leader shy they see the bait and that’s what they are hitting).
2. It makes the lure move better in the water. (nonsense I've not seen any improvement between solid titanium leaders and fluro leaders).
3. It's easier to knot or crimp. (more nonsense crimping anything is easy ffs).
4. It's cheaper than titanium wire. (so what? A cheese burger is cheaper than a steak dinner, another nonsense argument).
5. All the Europeans and Americans are using it. (so because people use it does that instantly make it Pike safe? Nope it doesn't).
6. Gordy Burton says it's ace. (who cares see above point).

The argument/discussion typically goes along the above reasons for why they use fluros when their reasons are dismissed I get the “who the F*** are you to say it's not safe” well I might not be no piking pirate nor American or European but I'm just someone who doesn't use leader material that fish can bite off to catch fish. In all my years Pike fishing wire hasn’t let me down I'm not into fads I'm not someone who feels the need to change my ways because all the cool kids are doing it, using wire for predatory fish is a safe way to fish for them. I usually ask them to prove it's Pike safe in comparison to wire they cant it's about now that they either stop the discussion or they just resort to name calling.
Through adversity to the stars

YouTube Channel:- https://www.youtube.com/user/metalscobes666
David Scobie Angling Adventures:-https://www.facebook.com/DFSAngling/

User avatar
andrew_nagel
Barbel
Barbel
Posts: 3929
Joined: Mon Aug 29 2011 05:00

Re: Flouro traces

Post by andrew_nagel » Tue Nov 05 2019 15:40

I think the situation is that many of these anglers are fairly new to piking, and have simply never used wired. Flouro is what was endorsed to them by the tackle promoters. They've been attracted into piking based on all the fancy lure equipment marketing. You only have to watch any of the Waterwolf camera videos on YouTube to see flouro shows up like a tow rope under water!

User avatar
Ratty46
Chub
Chub
Posts: 1397
Joined: Tue Sep 20 2011 05:00
Location: LDN

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Ratty46 » Tue Nov 05 2019 15:45

Metalscobes666 wrote:
I have this discussion quite a lot. Cards on the table I don’t like fluorocarbon for Pike full stop I do not think it is Pike safe.

Last season I pulled the remains of fluorocarbon bait traces out of Pikes throats now the human who made these went to the effort of shrink tubing the crimps and using owner hooks so clearly this is someone who's using quality equipment however the fact numerous breakoffs have happened it has me wondering why this human is still using fluorocarbon bait traces? I know a Pike fishing guide on the Erne who uses fluro bait traces I think this is a bad idea.

The points fans of fluro raise to me are:-

1. It's invisible in the water. (straw man argument as Pike are not leader shy they see the bait and that’s what they are hitting).
2. It makes the lure move better in the water. (nonsense I've not seen any improvement between solid titanium leaders and fluro leaders).
3. It's easier to knot or crimp. (more nonsense crimping anything is easy ffs).
4. It's cheaper than titanium wire. (so what? A cheese burger is cheaper than a steak dinner, another nonsense argument).
5. All the Europeans and Americans are using it. (so because people use it does that instantly make it Pike safe? Nope it doesn't).
6. Gordy Burton says it's ace. (who cares see above point).

The argument/discussion typically goes along the above reasons for why they use fluros when their reasons are dismissed I get the “who the F*** are you to say it's not safe” well I might not be no piking pirate nor American or European but I'm just someone who doesn't use leader material that fish can bite off to catch fish. In all my years Pike fishing wire hasn’t let me down I'm not into fads I'm not someone who feels the need to change my ways because all the cool kids are doing it, using wire for predatory fish is a safe way to fish for them. I usually ask them to prove it's Pike safe in comparison to wire they cant it's about now that they either stop the discussion or they just resort to name calling.

SPOT ON!! well bloody said

User avatar
Flipflopjoe
Jack Pike
Jack Pike
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Sep 29 2018 13:27

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Flipflopjoe » Tue Nov 05 2019 16:13

Metalscobes666 wrote:
I have this discussion quite a lot. Cards on the table I don’t like fluorocarbon for Pike full stop I do not think it is Pike safe.

Last season I pulled the remains of fluorocarbon bait traces out of Pikes throats now the human who made these went to the effort of shrink tubing the crimps and using owner hooks so clearly this is someone who's using quality equipment however the fact numerous breakoffs have happened it has me wondering why this human is still using fluorocarbon bait traces? I know a Pike fishing guide on the Erne who uses fluro bait traces I think this is a bad idea.

The points fans of fluro raise to me are:-

1. It's invisible in the water. (straw man argument as Pike are not leader shy they see the bait and that’s what they are hitting).
2. It makes the lure move better in the water. (nonsense I've not seen any improvement between solid titanium leaders and fluro leaders).
3. It's easier to knot or crimp. (more nonsense crimping anything is easy ffs).
4. It's cheaper than titanium wire. (so what? A cheese burger is cheaper than a steak dinner, another nonsense argument).
5. All the Europeans and Americans are using it. (so because people use it does that instantly make it Pike safe? Nope it doesn't).
6. Gordy Burton says it's ace. (who cares see above point).

The argument/discussion typically goes along the above reasons for why they use fluros when their reasons are dismissed I get the “who the F*** are you to say it's not safe” well I might not be no piking pirate nor American or European but I'm just someone who doesn't use leader material that fish can bite off to catch fish. In all my years Pike fishing wire hasn’t let me down I'm not into fads I'm not someone who feels the need to change my ways because all the cool kids are doing it, using wire for predatory fish is a safe way to fish for them. I usually ask them to prove it's Pike safe in comparison to wire they cant it's about now that they either stop the discussion or they just resort to name calling.
Well said mate :thumbs:

Mattjb
Perch
Perch
Posts: 568
Joined: Tue Jan 31 2012 06:00

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Mattjb » Tue Nov 05 2019 21:17

andrew_nagel wrote:
I think the situation is that many of these anglers are fairly new to piking, and have simply never used wired. Flouro is what was endorsed to them by the tackle promoters. They've been attracted into piking based on all the fancy lure equipment marketing. You only have to watch any of the Waterwolf camera videos on YouTube to see flouro shows up like a tow rope under water!
I've been watching the latest series of pike fight on YouTube and was surprised how much the flouro shows up like a bright white line. Surely trace wire shows up less

User avatar
Mike J
Barbel
Barbel
Posts: 4273
Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
Location: Wessex

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Mike J » Tue Nov 05 2019 21:46

Fluorocarbon IS NOT easier to crimp than wire, anyone who says otherwise has never tested their crimps correctly.

Braided wire grips the interior of a double barrel copper crimp and single strand with a double tag end produce very secure connections and are far easier to achieve.

I used to make 100lb - 500lb big game leaders from fluorocarbon.
Every joint required two crimps double barrel crimps before it could be guaranteed not to slip under 90% load. Copper crimps for 100lb, aluminium for the thicker material. 35 & 60lb fluoro (for jigging leaders) were impossible to crimp without slippage so I used knots, a Bimini for the loop and Tuna for the swivel.

Steve Le maitre
Perch
Perch
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Mar 13 2015 20:28

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Steve Le maitre » Tue Nov 05 2019 22:35

Mike J wrote:
Fluorocarbon IS NOT easier to crimp than wire, anyone who says otherwise has never tested their crimps correctly.

Braided wire grips the interior of a double barrel copper crimp and single strand with a double tag end produce very secure connections and are far easier to achieve.

I used to make 100lb - 500lb big game leaders from fluorocarbon.
Every joint required two crimps double barrel crimps before it could be guaranteed not to slip under 90% load. Copper crimps for 100lb, aluminium for the thicker material. 35 & 60lb fluoro (for jigging leaders) were impossible to crimp without slippage so I used knots, a Bimini for the loop and Tuna for the swivel.
Mike I respect you for being a veritable encyclopaedia of knowledge but I’m going to disagree on this one. Aluminium ovals are what you want as far as crimps go on Fluorocarbon and then very slightly mushroom the tag ends with a lighter prior to tightening up and crimping down. As far as the join is concerned I have 100% confidence, certainly how I do it.

Steve Le maitre
Perch
Perch
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Mar 13 2015 20:28

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Steve Le maitre » Tue Nov 05 2019 22:45

This is the strongest join you’ll ever get out of stranded wire but far too labour intensive....
BE95E752-2CF9-415B-99E8-D8C7001CCBE1.jpeg
130lb wire.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

BillCollins
Zander
Zander
Posts: 7301
Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
Location: Just a long chuck from the Shannon...

Re: Flouro traces

Post by BillCollins » Tue Nov 05 2019 22:47

I'm all for trying new things, but regarding pike traces it's wire all the way. A classic situation where 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' applies.

User avatar
Mike J
Barbel
Barbel
Posts: 4273
Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
Location: Wessex

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Mike J » Wed Nov 06 2019 00:13

Steve Le maitre wrote:
Mike J wrote:
Fluorocarbon IS NOT easier to crimp than wire, anyone who says otherwise has never tested their crimps correctly.

Braided wire grips the interior of a double barrel copper crimp and single strand with a double tag end produce very secure connections and are far easier to achieve.

I used to make 100lb - 500lb big game leaders from fluorocarbon.
Every joint required two crimps double barrel crimps before it could be guaranteed not to slip under 90% load. Copper crimps for 100lb, aluminium for the thicker material. 35 & 60lb fluoro (for jigging leaders) were impossible to crimp without slippage so I used knots, a Bimini for the loop and Tuna for the swivel.
Mike I respect you for being a veritable encyclopaedia of knowledge but I’m going to disagree on this one. Aluminium ovals are what you want as far as crimps go on Fluorocarbon and then very slightly mushroom the tag ends with a lighter prior to tightening up and crimping down. As far as the join is concerned I have 100% confidence, certainly how I do it.


No problems Steve, and I am pleased you have confidence in your method.
Before settling on copper crimps I tried aluminium crimps extensively but they all failed my testing.

Mushrooming is accepted practice when crimping heavy mono, to protect anyone handling the leader as it removes the danger of a sharp tag end, but if fluoro slips in the crimp the mushroom can break off (unlike nylon) and the connection will continue to fail.

nortchul
Stickleback
Stickleback
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 02 2018 20:51

Re: Flouro traces

Post by nortchul » Wed Nov 06 2019 13:01


User avatar
frankcarty
Gudgeon
Gudgeon
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jan 31 2013 06:00
Location: West of Ireland

Re: Flouro traces

Post by frankcarty » Wed Nov 06 2019 15:51

nortchul wrote:
Seen that video before alright, its a great channel. I'd love to see that test reproduced with stronger fluro, only 20lb .38 diameter is used in the test. I wonder how would 80-100lb traces fair out?

User avatar
Mike J
Barbel
Barbel
Posts: 4273
Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
Location: Wessex

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Mike J » Thu Nov 07 2019 09:25

frankcarty wrote:
nortchul wrote:
Seen that video before alright, its a great channel. I'd love to see that test reproduced with stronger fluro, only 20lb .38 diameter is used in the test. I wonder how would 80-100lb traces fair out?


Why test it at all?
A pike, any pike irrespective of size with a bitten off lure inside its mouth is something you should be avoiding at all costs.

My advice, dont even think about it if you value your pike or your more knowledgeable friends.

(FYI I have had 100lb Fluorocarbon sliced clean through by 30lb mono.)

User avatar
frankcarty
Gudgeon
Gudgeon
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jan 31 2013 06:00
Location: West of Ireland

Re: Flouro traces

Post by frankcarty » Thu Nov 07 2019 13:40

Why not test it at 80-100lb, as that's the most popular breaking strain that pike anglers use? If they fail like the leader in the video, then that's the final nail in the coffin for the debate.

Top Trowel
Stickleback
Stickleback
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 05 2019 22:36

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Top Trowel » Thu Nov 07 2019 20:29

I know lads who did use 40lb Fluro traces and a single circle hook when live baiting for perch on the warks Avon they have landed many a pike on the mainly hooked in the scissors , I think it’s irresponsible for the pikes welfare I have since got them onto cannelle superstress which works great for the perch and zeds being

nortchul
Stickleback
Stickleback
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 02 2018 20:51

Re: Flouro traces

Post by nortchul » Thu Nov 07 2019 20:59

Flouro seems to be a bit like Brexit 🤪
Some love it while others see it as the devil's work

User avatar
Mike J
Barbel
Barbel
Posts: 4273
Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
Location: Wessex

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Mike J » Fri Nov 08 2019 09:25

frankcarty wrote:
Why not test it at 80-100lb, as that's the most popular breaking strain that pike anglers use? If they fail like the leader in the video, then that's the final nail in the coffin for the debate.

Frank,
Your saying we should be completely unconcerned for the welfare of Pike as long as something is proven or otherwise.

Such a suggestion demonstrates an irresponsible attitude towards Pike PP members strive to protect.

Kev Berry
Ferox Trout
Ferox Trout
Posts: 19870
Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
Location: Robin Hood country

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Kev Berry » Fri Nov 08 2019 10:34

Mike J wrote:
frankcarty wrote:
Why not test it at 80-100lb, as that's the most popular breaking strain that pike anglers use? If they fail like the leader in the video, then that's the final nail in the coffin for the debate.

Frank,
Your saying we should be completely unconcerned for the welfare of Pike as long as something is proven or otherwise.

Such a suggestion demonstrates an irresponsible attitude towards Pike PP members strive to protect.
no need for testing its all been done on various fishing programmes, that half mad t**t Cyril whatsisface had several 100lb+ fluoro traces bitten through while lure fishing somewhere in Canada
There are enough expert pikers on here who say don't use it use wire to convince anyone not to use fluoro, don't try and reinvent the wheel

User avatar
frankcarty
Gudgeon
Gudgeon
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jan 31 2013 06:00
Location: West of Ireland

Re: Flouro traces

Post by frankcarty » Fri Nov 08 2019 18:22

Mike J wrote:
frankcarty wrote:
Why not test it at 80-100lb, as that's the most popular breaking strain that pike anglers use? If they fail like the leader in the video, then that's the final nail in the coffin for the debate.

Frank,
Your saying we should be completely unconcerned for the welfare of Pike as long as something is proven or otherwise.

Such a suggestion demonstrates an irresponsible attitude towards Pike PP members strive to protect.
Nope. I don't know where you got that from, nor do I like the patronizing tone suggesting that I care about pike welfare.
What I said was if people see an 80-100lb fluro leader bitten through like in the video, then people have no come back if they claim that fluro is safe. I don't use fluro, however if a novice or someone who is thinking about using it, such a video showing traces designed for pike fishing failing should change their mind.

User avatar
Flipflopjoe
Jack Pike
Jack Pike
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Sep 29 2018 13:27

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Flipflopjoe » Fri Nov 08 2019 21:23

Just finished reading Novembers Pikelines. There is an article from the president, Phil Turpin, where he says he’s off up to jock land with a few pals for some pike on the fly tuition.
The loch that they’re going to tho, has a single hooks and fluorocarbon only rule. He does remark that it is “taking him out of his comfort zone”. It’ll be interesting to see his experience of this. Hopefully he’ll write about it in the next issue.
Not that I’d use it, I’m wire only, but it might turn out to be a good argument against the fluoro brigade !!!

User avatar
Monts
Chub
Chub
Posts: 2490
Joined: Tue Nov 17 2015 18:52
Location: Yat Rock

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Monts » Fri Nov 08 2019 21:33

frankcarty wrote:
Mike J wrote:
frankcarty wrote:
Why not test it at 80-100lb, as that's the most popular breaking strain that pike anglers use? If they fail like the leader in the video, then that's the final nail in the coffin for the debate.

Frank,
Your saying we should be completely unconcerned for the welfare of Pike as long as something is proven or otherwise.

Such a suggestion demonstrates an irresponsible attitude towards Pike PP members strive to protect.
Nope. I don't know where you got that from, nor do I like the patronizing tone suggesting that I care about pike welfare.
What I said was if people see an 80-100lb fluro leader bitten through like in the video, then people have no come back if they claim that fluro is safe. I don't use fluro, however if a novice or someone who is thinking about using it, such a video showing traces designed for pike fishing failing should change their mind.
Frank,

:thumbs:

Mike,

You do seem to have a wealth of knowledge but by Christ try and climb down off your high horse at times. Or are you this Zen?

https://youtu.be/J-SUoHmpRdM


:grin:
If you wanna go fishing go fishing.- John Gierach

Steve Le maitre
Perch
Perch
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Mar 13 2015 20:28

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Steve Le maitre » Fri Nov 08 2019 22:12

Monts wrote:
frankcarty wrote:
Mike J wrote:
frankcarty wrote:
Why not test it at 80-100lb, as that's the most popular breaking strain that pike anglers use? If they fail like the leader in the video, then that's the final nail in the coffin for the debate.

Frank,
Your saying we should be completely unconcerned for the welfare of Pike as long as something is proven or otherwise.

Such a suggestion demonstrates an irresponsible attitude towards Pike PP members strive to protect.
Nope. I don't know where you got that from, nor do I like the patronizing tone suggesting that I care about pike welfare.
What I said was if people see an 80-100lb fluro leader bitten through like in the video, then people have no come back if they claim that fluro is safe. I don't use fluro, however if a novice or someone who is thinking about using it, such a video showing traces designed for pike fishing failing should change their mind.
Frank,

:thumbs:

Mike,

You do seem to have a wealth of knowledge but by Christ try and climb down off your high horse at times. Or are you this Zen?

https://youtu.be/J-SUoHmpRdM


:grin:
Watched it as a kid Jason, they were even pushing the agenda back then - how many fancied Tripitaka ? Year’s later you find out it was a man in a drag :exit:

User avatar
Mike J
Barbel
Barbel
Posts: 4273
Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
Location: Wessex

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Mike J » Sat Nov 09 2019 09:46

I dont ride horses Monts, nor do I think we should encourage irresponsible testing of fluoro on pike.

Thats my opinion, but Frank clearly suggested otherwise.

Dont worry though, Ive killed plenty of pike though every one was intentional.

User avatar
davelumb
Forum Sponsor
Forum Sponsor
Posts: 24302
Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
Location: On some faraway beach
Contact:

Re: Flouro traces

Post by davelumb » Sat Nov 09 2019 09:49

I thought Frank's point was that if there was a video of a pike biting through a heavy fluoro trace (and the video shows was of hookless lures) it would convince the ahrd of understanding to refrain from using fluoro of any strength for pike traces.

All positive from where I'm looking. :smile:

User avatar
frankcarty
Gudgeon
Gudgeon
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jan 31 2013 06:00
Location: West of Ireland

Re: Flouro traces

Post by frankcarty » Sat Nov 09 2019 11:11

Mike J wrote:
I dont ride horses Monts, nor do I think we should encourage irresponsible testing of fluoro on pike.

Thats my opinion, but Frank clearly suggested otherwise.

Dont worry though, Ive killed plenty of pike though every one was intentional.
Maybe read over my posts again. What i suggested was a video demonstrating how easily a 80-100lb fluro can be bitten through would end any future debate on Fluorocarbon traces, i.e. they are unsafe. In the underwater Ireland video, the lures were hookless to prove the point, so no pike escaped with a lure attached to it. However, in that video it was just 20lb fluro, look at the comments on it, people that use fluro dismiss the video as the breaking strain is too light and diameter is too small, so anyone considering using fluro will just read the comments and dismiss the video. If it was 80-100lb being bitten through, then there is no debate.

I can't see how me saying this is encouraging the use of fluorocarbon?

User avatar
Mike J
Barbel
Barbel
Posts: 4273
Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
Location: Wessex

Re: Flouro traces

Post by Mike J » Sun Nov 10 2019 10:04

Frank,
I repled to you saying 'Why not test it at 80-100lb, as that's the most popular breaking strain that pike anglers use? '

Yours was a two line post and mentioned nothing about how your suggested test should be carried out.



In the interestes of PP harmony and advancement of our knowledge I am willing to supply you with 100 fluoro leaders to test.
PM me your specifications as reqd.

:handshake:

Post Reply