Switching to multiplier reels question
- Richard Grave
- Perch
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Fri Sep 09 2011 05:00
Switching to multiplier reels question
Was toying with the idea of switching to multiplier reels for dead baiting whilst afloat, was wondering if it is possible to adjust the tension of the free spool by adjusting the cast control as it would be handy to finely adjust for trolling baits and to slacken right off for static fishing?
- Mike J
- Ferox Trout
- Posts: 11094
- Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
- Location: Wessex
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
For infinite spool control a good lever drag reel is the only game in town.
Everything else is a compromise and a poor one at that.
Look for Penn GLS 25s, open graphite cage allows easy thumb control, easily interchangeable between right and lefthand wind, spool control from totally free to lockdown with one single lever movement, a huge drag disc that will give 30lb plus, big comfortable handle for cold days, and you get an loud on/off clicker.
Everything else is a compromise and a poor one at that.
Look for Penn GLS 25s, open graphite cage allows easy thumb control, easily interchangeable between right and lefthand wind, spool control from totally free to lockdown with one single lever movement, a huge drag disc that will give 30lb plus, big comfortable handle for cold days, and you get an loud on/off clicker.
'No Man Ever Fishes The Same River Twice, .... For It Is Not The Same River, .... And He Is Not The Same Man' Heraclitus of Ephesus
- Richard Grave
- Perch
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Fri Sep 09 2011 05:00
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Thanks Mike, with these reels is it possible to alter the tension to which line is paid out when the reel is in free spool and the clicker is on?
- davelumb
- Forum Sponsor
- Posts: 42345
- Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
- Location: On some faraway beach
- Contact:
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
No level wind.Penn GLS 25
To answer the question about using the spool tension control as a drag in free spool, the answer is yes it can be done. But it's not a great system not least because if you forget to put it back to how it should be for casting you'll either cast about a foot or get a huge birdsnest!
- Richard Grave
- Perch
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Fri Sep 09 2011 05:00
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Ahh , over looked that Dave . The main reason for thinking about a switch was to cut out the annoyance of the main line plinking off the stop knot on the spool and resulting in a lame cast or at worst catapulting the baits off. Seems to happen quite regularly when using bigger baits with fixed spool reels
- davelumb
- Forum Sponsor
- Posts: 42345
- Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
- Location: On some faraway beach
- Contact:
- Richard Grave
- Perch
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Fri Sep 09 2011 05:00
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Cut down to 8lb power gum from 15lb Dave and still having problems
- davelumb
- Forum Sponsor
- Posts: 42345
- Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
- Location: On some faraway beach
- Contact:
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
I can only suggest making sure the knot is at the back of the spool with no turns behind it when you cast. Or try Dacron?
- Mike J
- Ferox Trout
- Posts: 11094
- Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
- Location: Wessex
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Dave,
No game reel has a levelwind.
Why, because levelwinds are not designed to operate under heavy loads.
A well designed small multiplier such as a 12C Alutecnos will lay the line itself, certainly good enough to avoid line build up on one side of the spool, proving a levelwind is not an essential.
Richard
Line being "payed out" ?
Dropping a bait down or drifting a bait away - the lever is pulled into the FREE position setting (lifting 95% drag off) the spool will rotate freely.
NB behind FREE is a spring loaded stop button which can be depressed to allow the lever to pass and provide 100% free spool operation.
Lever in FREE and the basic clicker engaged would take a goodish +2-4oz pull to allow line to leave the reel. Clicker tension can re-adjusted manually via the click spring.
Drag pressures on Penns are adjusted via the knurled knob alongside the drag lever, on other brands there can be an adjusting knob on the opposite side plate. The 'line class' (IGFA) of the reel determines the maximum drag pressure the reel is designed to apply without damage.
The drag lever will move through a 60degree arc from FREE through STRIKE to FULL or sunset (total lockup) in one single operation and drag pressure can be applied or reduced while fighting a fish.
No game reel has a levelwind.
Why, because levelwinds are not designed to operate under heavy loads.
A well designed small multiplier such as a 12C Alutecnos will lay the line itself, certainly good enough to avoid line build up on one side of the spool, proving a levelwind is not an essential.
Richard
Line being "payed out" ?
Dropping a bait down or drifting a bait away - the lever is pulled into the FREE position setting (lifting 95% drag off) the spool will rotate freely.
NB behind FREE is a spring loaded stop button which can be depressed to allow the lever to pass and provide 100% free spool operation.
Lever in FREE and the basic clicker engaged would take a goodish +2-4oz pull to allow line to leave the reel. Clicker tension can re-adjusted manually via the click spring.
Drag pressures on Penns are adjusted via the knurled knob alongside the drag lever, on other brands there can be an adjusting knob on the opposite side plate. The 'line class' (IGFA) of the reel determines the maximum drag pressure the reel is designed to apply without damage.
The drag lever will move through a 60degree arc from FREE through STRIKE to FULL or sunset (total lockup) in one single operation and drag pressure can be applied or reduced while fighting a fish.
Last edited by Mike J on Sun Dec 24 2017 20:39, edited 1 time in total.
'No Man Ever Fishes The Same River Twice, .... For It Is Not The Same River, .... And He Is Not The Same Man' Heraclitus of Ephesus
- Richard Grave
- Perch
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Fri Sep 09 2011 05:00
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Thanks for the detailed reply will take a look at them now . Dave ta for the tips also !
- davelumb
- Forum Sponsor
- Posts: 42345
- Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
- Location: On some faraway beach
- Contact:
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
But pikers don't need big game reels, Mike.
- Mike J
- Ferox Trout
- Posts: 11094
- Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
- Location: Wessex
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
davelumb wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24 2017 20:30 -But pikers don't need big game reels, Mike.
You didnt 'need' PE/Dyneema/Spectra line but when someone showed you its benefits you started to use it.
There is not a single reason why a small lever drag reel wouldn't outperform a levelwind reel for pike fishing.
So why are they not used?
Ignorance.
Anglers either haven't tried them or they are dissuaded from doing so by those who know no better.
'No Man Ever Fishes The Same River Twice, .... For It Is Not The Same River, .... And He Is Not The Same Man' Heraclitus of Ephesus
- davelumb
- Forum Sponsor
- Posts: 42345
- Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
- Location: On some faraway beach
- Contact:
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
They aren't used for the same reason fixed spool reels without bale arms aren't used.
I thought about trying Charter Specials years ago, but a) they are RHW, and b) they're big and 'orrible!
If someone made a 6000 size lever drag reel with a levelwind I'm sure some pikers would use them. But for most purposes a baitrunner does the job better than a multiplier for bait fishing.
I thought about trying Charter Specials years ago, but a) they are RHW, and b) they're big and 'orrible!
If someone made a 6000 size lever drag reel with a levelwind I'm sure some pikers would use them. But for most purposes a baitrunner does the job better than a multiplier for bait fishing.
-
- Ferox Trout
- Posts: 10627
- Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
- Location: Just a long chuck from the Shannon...
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Richard,
You won't have any trouble with stopknots on a multiplier as they can't really snag on anything, even the rubber braid stops pass out through the levelwind with no issues. I use Abu's for all bait fishing from the boat. People get very concerned about the resistance thing, but in practice pike don't seem in the slightest bit concerned about the resistance from the clicker and it's a handy backup audible indicator if your eye has wandered from the float. For static fishing I fish off the clicker all the time, so no constant messing with the cast control knob. Where the cast control comes in handy is when fishing a drifter off a multi, you can set it to pay out line at whatever rate you want subject to wind strength and then it looks after itself. It also keeps a nice tight line to the float at all times so that when you get a take you're in almost instant contact instead of gathering up the slack that can accumulate when using the drifter off of a fixed spool, if you don't babysit it.
You won't have any trouble with stopknots on a multiplier as they can't really snag on anything, even the rubber braid stops pass out through the levelwind with no issues. I use Abu's for all bait fishing from the boat. People get very concerned about the resistance thing, but in practice pike don't seem in the slightest bit concerned about the resistance from the clicker and it's a handy backup audible indicator if your eye has wandered from the float. For static fishing I fish off the clicker all the time, so no constant messing with the cast control knob. Where the cast control comes in handy is when fishing a drifter off a multi, you can set it to pay out line at whatever rate you want subject to wind strength and then it looks after itself. It also keeps a nice tight line to the float at all times so that when you get a take you're in almost instant contact instead of gathering up the slack that can accumulate when using the drifter off of a fixed spool, if you don't babysit it.
Marcraft are for queers.
- Richard Grave
- Perch
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Fri Sep 09 2011 05:00
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Thanks Bill , had been using a multi for about a month or so now for drifter fishing after reading a post on here and had noticed how much more stop knot friendly they were after changing the drifter to static fish. Had a pm from a member on here telling how to reduce the resistance of the clicker by filing down one side on the clicker pawl . I know it's probably paranoia but I do like less resistance as it's quite a pull on my c4 atm to pay line . Incidentally ever since starting fishing I've used powergum for stop knots as it was always recommended in every book / magazine ... what exactly is wrong with using mono? Does the sliding friction damage the mainline in some way?
-
- Ferox Trout
- Posts: 10627
- Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
- Location: Just a long chuck from the Shannon...
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
You can use whatever suits best as a stopknot Richard, but I find that moving a mono stopknot around frequently on braid sees it fall apart in no time. As you don't need to be as streamlined with the knot for a multi, a rubber braid stop will last practically the whole winter.
Marcraft are for queers.
-
- Roach
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Jun 03 2017 18:35
- Location: North Shields
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Mike J wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24 2017 20:22 -https://www.gerrysfishing.com/okuma-slx ... er-drag.irDave,
No game reel has a levelwind.
Why, because levelwinds are not designed to operate under heavy loads.
A well designed small multiplier such as a 12C Alutecnos will lay the line itself, certainly good enough to avoid line build up on one side of the spool, proving a levelwind is not an essential.
Richard
Line being "payed out" ?
Dropping a bait down or drifting a bait away - the lever is pulled into the FREE position setting (lifting 95% drag off) the spool will rotate freely.
NB behind FREE is a spring loaded stop button which can be depressed to allow the lever to pass and provide 100% free spool operation.
Lever in FREE and the basic clicker engaged would take a goodish +2-4oz pull to allow line to leave the reel. Clicker tension can re-adjusted manually via the click spring.
Drag pressures on Penns are adjusted via the knurled knob alongside the drag lever, on other brands there can be an adjusting knob on the opposite side plate. The 'line class' (IGFA) of the reel determines the maximum drag pressure the reel is designed to apply without damage.
The drag lever will move through a 60degree arc from FREE through STRIKE to FULL or sunset (total lockup) in one single operation and drag pressure can be applied or reduced while fighting a fish.
- Nobby C
- Chub
- Posts: 2217
- Joined: Wed Nov 23 2011 06:00
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Avets are a nice little reel,a bit bulky for casting/thumbing though but reasonably priced for what they offer.
- Mike J
- Ferox Trout
- Posts: 11094
- Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
- Location: Wessex
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
cooky wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25 2017 13:14 -Mike J wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24 2017 20:22 -https://www.gerrysfishing.com/okuma-slx ... er-drag.irDave,
No game reel has a levelwind.
Why, because levelwinds are not designed to operate under heavy loads.
A well designed small multiplier such as a 12C Alutecnos will lay the line itself, certainly good enough to avoid line build up on one side of the spool, proving a levelwind is not an essential.
Richard
Line being "payed out" ?
Dropping a bait down or drifting a bait away - the lever is pulled into the FREE position setting (lifting 95% drag off) the spool will rotate freely.
NB behind FREE is a spring loaded stop button which can be depressed to allow the lever to pass and provide 100% free spool operation.
Lever in FREE and the basic clicker engaged would take a goodish +2-4oz pull to allow line to leave the reel. Clicker tension can re-adjusted manually via the click spring.
Drag pressures on Penns are adjusted via the knurled knob alongside the drag lever, on other brands there can be an adjusting knob on the opposite side plate. The 'line class' (IGFA) of the reel determines the maximum drag pressure the reel is designed to apply without damage.
The drag lever will move through a 60degree arc from FREE through STRIKE to FULL or sunset (total lockup) in one single operation and drag pressure can be applied or reduced while fighting a fish.
A neat little reel cooky
But from what I can find its not available in thr lefthand wind favoured my most UK pike anglers.
Nobby, the Avet MXJ 5.8 is a compact lever drag reel and it does come in lefthand wind, of the various Avets Ive seen in action all have been well made and performed faultlessly.
However many righthanded reels can be converted into leftys, all it usually requires is a little re-engineering.
'No Man Ever Fishes The Same River Twice, .... For It Is Not The Same River, .... And He Is Not The Same Man' Heraclitus of Ephesus
-
- Roach
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Jun 03 2017 18:35
- Location: North Shields
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Mike J wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25 2017 19:20 -seek and ye shall find ;)cooky wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25 2017 13:14 -Mike J wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24 2017 20:22 -https://www.gerrysfishing.com/okuma-slx ... er-drag.irDave,
No game reel has a levelwind.
Why, because levelwinds are not designed to operate under heavy loads.
A well designed small multiplier such as a 12C Alutecnos will lay the line itself, certainly good enough to avoid line build up on one side of the spool, proving a levelwind is not an essential.
Richard
Line being "payed out" ?
Dropping a bait down or drifting a bait away - the lever is pulled into the FREE position setting (lifting 95% drag off) the spool will rotate freely.
NB behind FREE is a spring loaded stop button which can be depressed to allow the lever to pass and provide 100% free spool operation.
Lever in FREE and the basic clicker engaged would take a goodish +2-4oz pull to allow line to leave the reel. Clicker tension can re-adjusted manually via the click spring.
Drag pressures on Penns are adjusted via the knurled knob alongside the drag lever, on other brands there can be an adjusting knob on the opposite side plate. The 'line class' (IGFA) of the reel determines the maximum drag pressure the reel is designed to apply without damage.
The drag lever will move through a 60degree arc from FREE through STRIKE to FULL or sunset (total lockup) in one single operation and drag pressure can be applied or reduced while fighting a fish.
A neat little reel cooky
But from what I can find its not available in thr lefthand wind favoured my most UK pike anglers.
Nobby, the Avet MXJ 5.8 is a compact lever drag reel and it does come in lefthand wind, of the various Avets Ive seen in action all have been well made and performed faultlessly.
However many righthanded reels can be converted into leftys, all it usually requires is a little re-engineering.
https://www.marine-deals.co.nz/okuma-re ... -hand-reel
- Mike J
- Ferox Trout
- Posts: 11094
- Joined: Wed Nov 09 2016 09:26
- Location: Wessex
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
seek and ye shall find ;)
https://www.marine-deals.co.nz/okuma-re ... -hand-reel
[/quote]
Oh yes, we can all see UK anglers importing reels from New Zealand
I doubt 1 in 1,000 would even consider it with less if any follow through with a purchase
Obviously if there was a demand Okuma would be stocking them here but there isn't.
The few UK pike anglers who already use a lever drag are probably satisfied with the reels they have, and those that do not, will not, for the reasons I have previously mentioned.
https://www.marine-deals.co.nz/okuma-re ... -hand-reel
[/quote]
Oh yes, we can all see UK anglers importing reels from New Zealand
I doubt 1 in 1,000 would even consider it with less if any follow through with a purchase
Obviously if there was a demand Okuma would be stocking them here but there isn't.
The few UK pike anglers who already use a lever drag are probably satisfied with the reels they have, and those that do not, will not, for the reasons I have previously mentioned.
'No Man Ever Fishes The Same River Twice, .... For It Is Not The Same River, .... And He Is Not The Same Man' Heraclitus of Ephesus
-
- Ferox Trout
- Posts: 10627
- Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
- Location: Just a long chuck from the Shannon...
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
cooky wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25 2017 20:51 -About 12-13 years ag I bought 3 Okumas similar to this but an earlier model, to try for piking. Fine reels but a bit heavy and cumbersome, if I was to use one word to describe them, it would be unecessary ? I sold them on as I had no other use for them.Mike J wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25 2017 19:20 -seek and ye shall find ;)cooky wrote: ↑Mon Dec 25 2017 13:14 -Mike J wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24 2017 20:22 -https://www.gerrysfishing.com/okuma-slx ... er-drag.irDave,
No game reel has a levelwind.
Why, because levelwinds are not designed to operate under heavy loads.
A well designed small multiplier such as a 12C Alutecnos will lay the line itself, certainly good enough to avoid line build up on one side of the spool, proving a levelwind is not an essential.
Richard
Line being "payed out" ?
Dropping a bait down or drifting a bait away - the lever is pulled into the FREE position setting (lifting 95% drag off) the spool will rotate freely.
NB behind FREE is a spring loaded stop button which can be depressed to allow the lever to pass and provide 100% free spool operation.
Lever in FREE and the basic clicker engaged would take a goodish +2-4oz pull to allow line to leave the reel. Clicker tension can re-adjusted manually via the click spring.
Drag pressures on Penns are adjusted via the knurled knob alongside the drag lever, on other brands there can be an adjusting knob on the opposite side plate. The 'line class' (IGFA) of the reel determines the maximum drag pressure the reel is designed to apply without damage.
The drag lever will move through a 60degree arc from FREE through STRIKE to FULL or sunset (total lockup) in one single operation and drag pressure can be applied or reduced while fighting a fish.
A neat little reel cooky
But from what I can find its not available in thr lefthand wind favoured my most UK pike anglers.
Nobby, the Avet MXJ 5.8 is a compact lever drag reel and it does come in lefthand wind, of the various Avets Ive seen in action all have been well made and performed faultlessly.
However many righthanded reels can be converted into leftys, all it usually requires is a little re-engineering.
https://www.marine-deals.co.nz/okuma-re ... -hand-reel
Marcraft are for queers.
- Duncan Holmes
- Barbel
- Posts: 4946
- Joined: Mon Feb 20 2012 06:00
- Location: In the heart of Norfolk
- Contact:
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Richard, I use any 6501 c3's almost exclusively for pike fishing. IMO for general pike fishing they are superior to a fixed spool in every way.
Straight out of the box they are perfectly adequate, but if your strip them, clean them properly, re-grease with cals universal grease and load the bearings with red rocket oil they will run as smooth as a sewing machine.
The standard drag washers are Ok, but a change to carbotex will give you a bit more range in the drag, and smooth as silk.
The beauty of the abu is the simplicity or service and ease of obtaining spare parts, most stuff is available next day. I'm not sure if the same can be said for other makes?
I have never found the level wind to be an issue for piking, my beach reels were ct converted for distance, but for piking especially off a boat it's not an issue.
Setting up the brakes is pretty easy, i run mine pretty free, with one white block, relying on my thumb to control the spool. This suits me as I have used multis for years, but if you are new to them 2 or 3 blocks to start with will reduce backlash. You can then click off or drop blocks as experience increases.
I have friends that use abu 6500's that are decades old and still as good as the day they got them.
Straight out of the box they are perfectly adequate, but if your strip them, clean them properly, re-grease with cals universal grease and load the bearings with red rocket oil they will run as smooth as a sewing machine.
The standard drag washers are Ok, but a change to carbotex will give you a bit more range in the drag, and smooth as silk.
The beauty of the abu is the simplicity or service and ease of obtaining spare parts, most stuff is available next day. I'm not sure if the same can be said for other makes?
I have never found the level wind to be an issue for piking, my beach reels were ct converted for distance, but for piking especially off a boat it's not an issue.
Setting up the brakes is pretty easy, i run mine pretty free, with one white block, relying on my thumb to control the spool. This suits me as I have used multis for years, but if you are new to them 2 or 3 blocks to start with will reduce backlash. You can then click off or drop blocks as experience increases.
I have friends that use abu 6500's that are decades old and still as good as the day they got them.
"The opinions expressed in any of my posts are my own and do not reflect the view of the any organisation that I may be associated with."
-
- Roach
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Jun 03 2017 18:35
- Location: North Shields
- Andrew
- Bailiff
- Posts: 15496
- Joined: Wed Nov 02 2011 05:00
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
You on commision for posting links ?
-
- Roach
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Tue Aug 30 2011 05:00
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Duncan.I use both baitcasters & fixed spool when lure fishing & find my baitcaters give me far more control and a feeling of being more Intouch with the lure.I am about to replace 3 fox fixed spools (don't ask) on my 12ft bank rods.Do you pair the baitcasters with dedicated rods fitted with more rings to keep the braid away from the blank or just fish your usual rods upside down?
cheers
jimmy
cheers
jimmy
Yeah?Did ya?
-
- Roach
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Jun 03 2017 18:35
- Location: North Shields
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Andrew Croft wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26 2017 13:30 -its being helpful as he gave the wrong nameYou on commision for posting links ?
- Duncan Holmes
- Barbel
- Posts: 4946
- Joined: Mon Feb 20 2012 06:00
- Location: In the heart of Norfolk
- Contact:
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
jimmy minors wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26 2017 13:59 -Mine are paired with DL P1's rung rover style, 30mm butt ring, + 7, + tip and I don't have any issues. If I was going to rebuild these purely for multi's I would probably add another intermediate, but these rods get used for other species with fixed spools so they will stay as they are.Duncan.I use both baitcasters & fixed spool when lure fishing & find my baitcaters give me far more control and a feeling of being more Intouch with the lure.I am about to replace 3 fox fixed spools (don't ask) on my 12ft bank rods.Do you pair the baitcasters with dedicated rods fitted with more rings to keep the braid away from the blank or just fish your usual rods upside down?
cheers
jimmy
"The opinions expressed in any of my posts are my own and do not reflect the view of the any organisation that I may be associated with."
- Richard Grave
- Perch
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Fri Sep 09 2011 05:00
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
Never had any noticeable increase in dropped takes Duncan?
- Duncan Holmes
- Barbel
- Posts: 4946
- Joined: Mon Feb 20 2012 06:00
- Location: In the heart of Norfolk
- Contact:
Re: Switching to multiplier reels question
cooky wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26 2017 15:53 -thanksAndrew Croft wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26 2017 13:30 -its being helpful as he gave the wrong nameYou on commision for posting links ?
this is who I normally use.
http://www.blakdogtackle.com/?cPath=86_ ... 38ac1f6df0
"The opinions expressed in any of my posts are my own and do not reflect the view of the any organisation that I may be associated with."