paternoster rigs ?

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alfredpike123
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by alfredpike123 »

John Roberts paternoster booms.....anybody???
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Mike J »

Fitas wrote: Sat Dec 05 2020 17:09 -
I do well fishing deads on suken paternoster on stillwaters always on one of my rods . Like been said make sure it separate's when hitting the water . Do you guys us heavy leads and lock up tight I try and get a nice balance

Nothing is tight or locked up.
I try and use a stone I pick up off the bank, it not the smallest weight I use is a 6mm hex nut, or 1oz bomb. the largest just under 2oz.
I just use enough tension for the float to lay at 45degrees and hold the line under a rubber band or 1" O ring.

My aim is to be as natural as possible which is why I only use a single BB swivel on the trace and a tiny two hole Roberts bead for the pat link, weights are attached using a snare of a 2" loop tied in the light mono.
I only use 4" poly sea floats* because are cheap, almost indestructible and last forever.

* the floats with the tube that extends above and below the body.

.
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Stewlaws »

alfredpike123 wrote: Tue Jan 05 2021 12:51 -
John Roberts paternoster booms.....anybody???
I have a few packs as a back up ...but against the greys paternoster they are small and certainly not my go to whilst I'm still able to use the greys.
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Taylorgilder »

Found the JR pat booms will tangle on occasion, and too many times for me .....simple is best and more or less tangle free , tie the link to your trace a few inches above the top hook = sorted .
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by alfredpike123 »

Mike J wrote: Tue Jan 05 2021 15:13 -
Fitas wrote: Sat Dec 05 2020 17:09 -
I do well fishing deads on suken paternoster on stillwaters always on one of my rods . Like been said make sure it separate's when hitting the water . Do you guys us heavy leads and lock up tight I try and get a nice balance

Nothing is tight or locked up.
I try and use a stone I pick up off the bank, it not the smallest weight I use is a 6mm hex nut, or 1oz bomb. the largest just under 2oz.
I just use enough tension for the float to lay at 45degrees and hold the line under a rubber band or 1" O ring.

My aim is to be as natural as possible which is why I only use a single BB swivel on the trace and a tiny two hole Roberts bead for the pat link, weights are attached using a snare of a 2" loop tied in the light mono.
I only use 4" poly sea floats* because are cheap, almost indestructible and last forever.

* the floats with the tube that extends above and below the body.

.
Do you put theJR bead free running on a uptrace,is the sunk float fixed. :scratch:
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Mike J »

alfredpike123 wrote: Wed Jan 06 2021 22:48 -
Mike J wrote: Tue Jan 05 2021 15:13 -
Fitas wrote: Sat Dec 05 2020 17:09 -
I do well fishing deads on suken paternoster on stillwaters always on one of my rods . Like been said make sure it separate's when hitting the water . Do you guys us heavy leads and lock up tight I try and get a nice balance

Nothing is tight or locked up.
I try and use a stone I pick up off the bank, it not the smallest weight I use is a 6mm hex nut, or 1oz bomb. the largest just under 2oz.
I just use enough tension for the float to lay at 45degrees and hold the line under a rubber band or 1" O ring.

My aim is to be as natural as possible which is why I only use a single BB swivel on the trace and a tiny two hole Roberts bead for the pat link, weights are attached using a snare of a 2" loop tied in the light mono.
I only use 4" poly sea floats* because are cheap, almost indestructible and last forever.

* the floats with the tube that extends above and below the body.

.
Do you put theJR bead free running on a uptrace,is the sunk float fixed. :scratch:


Sorry if I did not make my set-up clear.
The JR bead is free to slide between the swivel and the bottom of the float.
The float is free sliding above the JR bead up to the stop knot/float stop setting the depth of the rig. I sometimes use another stop below the float to limit the movement of the bait or retain the float should the line break.

My trace is homemade from Masons 45lb wire and 3ft long, my reel line is 60lb Spiderwire braid. Do not use an uptrace.
FYI I started fishing baits in 1960/61 and have only ever had one bite-off.

Hope this helps.
Any problems comeback :handshake:

.
'No Man Ever Fishes The Same River Twice, .... For It Is Not The Same River, .... And He Is Not The Same Man' Heraclitus of Ephesus
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by alfredpike123 »

Mike J wrote: Thu Jan 07 2021 08:26 -
alfredpike123 wrote: Wed Jan 06 2021 22:48 -
Mike J wrote: Tue Jan 05 2021 15:13 -
Fitas wrote: Sat Dec 05 2020 17:09 -
I do well fishing deads on suken paternoster on stillwaters always on one of my rods . Like been said make sure it separate's when hitting the water . Do you guys us heavy leads and lock up tight I try and get a nice balance

Nothing is tight or locked up.
I try and use a stone I pick up off the bank, it not the smallest weight I use is a 6mm hex nut, or 1oz bomb. the largest just under 2oz.
I just use enough tension for the float to lay at 45degrees and hold the line under a rubber band or 1" O ring.

My aim is to be as natural as possible which is why I only use a single BB swivel on the trace and a tiny two hole Roberts bead for the pat link, weights are attached using a snare of a 2" loop tied in the light mono.
I only use 4" poly sea floats* because are cheap, almost indestructible and last forever.

* the floats with the tube that extends above and below the body.

.
Do you put theJR bead free running on a uptrace,is the sunk float fixed. :scratch:
:thumbs:



Sorry if I did not make my set-up clear.
The JR bead is free to slide between the swivel and the bottom of the float.
The float is free sliding above the JR bead up to the stop knot/float stop setting the depth of the rig. I sometimes use another stop below the float to limit the movement of the bait or retain the float should the line break.

My trace is homemade from Masons 45lb wire and 3ft long, my reel line is 60lb Spiderwire braid. Do not use an uptrace.
FYI I started fishing baits in 1960/61 and have only ever had one bite-off.

Hope this helps.
Any problems comeback :handshake:

.
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Jellybait »

Duncan Holmes wrote: Thu Oct 03 2019 21:12 -
Sliding float, set just over depth, tie bomb link to top treble, cast out, Overhead will work with this rig, fish it as Mike describes (but use ratchet instead of rubber band)

Its simple, tangle proof, as bite off proof as you are going to get, and very effective for deads, lives, still or running water.

Any other paternoster rig I have I ever seen just designs in risk of tangles and bite off's and then add more bits to try to get over the problem it created for itself.
HI Duncan , do you have a pic or diagram of that rig as i cant seem to get my head around it .thanks Donan
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by alfredpike123 »

Mike J wrote: Thu Jan 07 2021 08:26 -
alfredpike123 wrote: Wed Jan 06 2021 22:48 -
Mike J wrote: Tue Jan 05 2021 15:13 -
Fitas wrote: Sat Dec 05 2020 17:09 -
I do well fishing deads on suken paternoster on stillwaters always on one of my rods . Like been said make sure it separate's when hitting the water . Do you guys us heavy leads and lock up tight I try and get a nice balance

Nothing is tight or locked up.
I try and use a stone I pick up off the bank, it not the smallest weight I use is a 6mm hex nut, or 1oz bomb. the largest just under 2oz.
I just use enough tension for the float to lay at 45degrees and hold the line under a rubber band or 1" O ring.

My aim is to be as natural as possible which is why I only use a single BB swivel on the trace and a tiny two hole Roberts bead for the pat link, weights are attached using a snare of a 2" loop tied in the light mono.
I only use 4" poly sea floats* because are cheap, almost indestructible and last forever.

* the floats with the tube that extends above and below the body.

.
Do you put theJR bead free running on a uptrace,is the sunk float fixed. :scratch:
:thumbs:


Sorry if I did not make my set-up clear.
The JR bead is free to slide between the swivel and the bottom of the float.
The float is free sliding above the JR bead up to the stop knot/float stop setting the depth of the rig. I sometimes use another stop below the float to limit the movement of the bait or retain the float should the line break.

My trace is homemade from Masons 45lb wire and 3ft long, my reel line is 60lb Spiderwire braid. Do not use an uptrace.
FYI I started fishing baits in 1960/61 and have only ever had one bite-off.

Hope this helps.
Any problems comeback :handshake:

.
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by GAVIN H »

davelumb wrote: Wed Oct 09 2019 08:08 -
Fentiger01 wrote: Tue Oct 08 2019 22:02 -
davelumb wrote: Tue Oct 01 2019 08:29 -
stickman wrote: Mon Sep 30 2019 20:35 -
OK I just dont get it. Every picture of a paternoster rig shows a trace or a bit of line going off at an angle. Which is great in a river but surely the bait will just hang down next to the mainline in a still water. This could cause tangles and even worse a pike might bite through the mainline. How does one set up a paternoster rig to work in still water?
I don't know what your problem is.

You cast a paternoster out, tighten up to the float and set the indicator. Simple.

The line from rod tip to trace and the paternoster link to the lead will be at an angle with the bait hanging down and slightly away from the paternoster link.
My favourite rig of all time is a livebait fished on a sunken-float paternoster, fished with an up-trace utilising a very simple 'helicopter' rig. Very, very simple and very, very good. The sunken-float fished to a bite alarm and drop-off indicator ensures the rod is direct to the rig and reduces any slight slack that may be caused by the tip being direct to a float, which is then in turn, subsequently direct to the rig (if that makes sense). The rig I use was taken from Steve Younger's excellent 'Fenland Zander' book from way back in the day (1996), page 51, fig 2.

The only thing I do differently is use a cigar shaped sunken float, I've feel you can get away with a bigger float without making the rig seem a bit sea-fishing like. I don't remember many, if any tangles with this rig and using a stiffer, heavier grade (I preferred titanium) up-trace, I certainly don't recall any bite offs.
:thumbs:

My first choice livey rig forbank fishing in the Lakes (when you could still use livies) was the SFP. I tied the pat link to the top hook (as I always do for pat rigs) and used a 1.75in poly ball as the float. Set thefloat high enough to keep line off any marginal ledge and deep enough to avoid wave action.
When you say the top hook Dave, do you mean to the treble furthest from the trace swivel?
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by davelumb »

GAVIN H wrote: Tue Jan 12 2021 19:17 -
davelumb wrote: Wed Oct 09 2019 08:08 -
Fentiger01 wrote: Tue Oct 08 2019 22:02 -
davelumb wrote: Tue Oct 01 2019 08:29 -
stickman wrote: Mon Sep 30 2019 20:35 -
OK I just dont get it. Every picture of a paternoster rig shows a trace or a bit of line going off at an angle. Which is great in a river but surely the bait will just hang down next to the mainline in a still water. This could cause tangles and even worse a pike might bite through the mainline. How does one set up a paternoster rig to work in still water?
I don't know what your problem is.

You cast a paternoster out, tighten up to the float and set the indicator. Simple.

The line from rod tip to trace and the paternoster link to the lead will be at an angle with the bait hanging down and slightly away from the paternoster link.
My favourite rig of all time is a livebait fished on a sunken-float paternoster, fished with an up-trace utilising a very simple 'helicopter' rig. Very, very simple and very, very good. The sunken-float fished to a bite alarm and drop-off indicator ensures the rod is direct to the rig and reduces any slight slack that may be caused by the tip being direct to a float, which is then in turn, subsequently direct to the rig (if that makes sense). The rig I use was taken from Steve Younger's excellent 'Fenland Zander' book from way back in the day (1996), page 51, fig 2.

The only thing I do differently is use a cigar shaped sunken float, I've feel you can get away with a bigger float without making the rig seem a bit sea-fishing like. I don't remember many, if any tangles with this rig and using a stiffer, heavier grade (I preferred titanium) up-trace, I certainly don't recall any bite offs.
:thumbs:

My first choice livey rig forbank fishing in the Lakes (when you could still use livies) was the SFP. I tied the pat link to the top hook (as I always do for pat rigs) and used a 1.75in poly ball as the float. Set thefloat high enough to keep line off any marginal ledge and deep enough to avoid wave action.
When you say the top hook Dave, do you mean to the treble furthest from the trace swivel?
The one nearest the swivel is the top hook. The one at the end of the trace is the bottom hook.
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by GAVIN H »

davelumb wrote: Tue Jan 12 2021 19:27 -
GAVIN H wrote: Tue Jan 12 2021 19:17 -
davelumb wrote: Wed Oct 09 2019 08:08 -
Fentiger01 wrote: Tue Oct 08 2019 22:02 -
davelumb wrote: Tue Oct 01 2019 08:29 -
stickman wrote: Mon Sep 30 2019 20:35 -
OK I just dont get it. Every picture of a paternoster rig shows a trace or a bit of line going off at an angle. Which is great in a river but surely the bait will just hang down next to the mainline in a still water. This could cause tangles and even worse a pike might bite through the mainline. How does one set up a paternoster rig to work in still water?
I don't know what your problem is.

You cast a paternoster out, tighten up to the float and set the indicator. Simple.

The line from rod tip to trace and the paternoster link to the lead will be at an angle with the bait hanging down and slightly away from the paternoster link.
My favourite rig of all time is a livebait fished on a sunken-float paternoster, fished with an up-trace utilising a very simple 'helicopter' rig. Very, very simple and very, very good. The sunken-float fished to a bite alarm and drop-off indicator ensures the rod is direct to the rig and reduces any slight slack that may be caused by the tip being direct to a float, which is then in turn, subsequently direct to the rig (if that makes sense). The rig I use was taken from Steve Younger's excellent 'Fenland Zander' book from way back in the day (1996), page 51, fig 2.

The only thing I do differently is use a cigar shaped sunken float, I've feel you can get away with a bigger float without making the rig seem a bit sea-fishing like. I don't remember many, if any tangles with this rig and using a stiffer, heavier grade (I preferred titanium) up-trace, I certainly don't recall any bite offs.
:thumbs:

My first choice livey rig forbank fishing in the Lakes (when you could still use livies) was the SFP. I tied the pat link to the top hook (as I always do for pat rigs) and used a 1.75in poly ball as the float. Set thefloat high enough to keep line off any marginal ledge and deep enough to avoid wave action.
When you say the top hook Dave, do you mean to the treble furthest from the trace swivel?
The one nearest the swivel is the top hook. The one at the end of the trace is the bottom hook.
:thumbs:
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by stubbojo »

Jason Skilton wrote: Tue Oct 01 2019 10:09 -
You can use a pat for either live or deadbaits for presenting off the bottom. Dyson rigs are easier to cast though ;-)
what a great rig the dyson rig is , been piking for ever but only just started to use the dyson this year
caught more pike this season than any before probably over 100 by now.... caught s**t loads on the dyson and some good perch too
think the numbers reflect me fishing local...... mainly small pike to 17lb but a lot of them this season
normally i would be travelling about after the bigger fish ,,,but less of them :thumbs:
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Kevin O'Keeffe »

Much same Stubbo.... You can only catch what's there is the phrase!!
I have been fishing local pits with many more days fished than I normally would and missing the better waters I travel to. It was great to get out of the house though and without it I would have been climbing the walls!! I caught over 150 fish with 60 plus doubles but a 15lb fish was rare! No twentys for the first season in many!

Local pits seem to be all full of the dreaded silk weed. Been using the (neglected for donkeys years by me), Dyson / CD rig with deads over the weed all winter on one rod. It often out fishes popped up baits and I think it is mostly due to the fact that I didn't see anyone else using it. in a decent wind though.... I still reverted to the surface float pat rig which bounces the dead a bit. :thumbs:

One thing I have found.... Possibly common knowledge to regular users but..... A bigger sub float and lead works better for bite indication giving a better pivot point.
Love the hit!
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by John Milford »

The 'Rolt' two-float (one sunk, one surface) pike paternoster was in use during the reign of Queen Victoria.

Not taking anything away from Vic Bellars or Colin Dyson, but there's nothing new in angling. :pipe:

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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by davelumb »

John Milford wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 18:49 -
The 'Rolt' two-float (one sunk, one surface) pike paternoster was in use during the reign of Queen Victoria.

Not taking anything away from Vic Bellars or Colin Dyson, but there's nothing new in angling. :pipe:


WJ Cummins page.png
That's just a sunk float paternoster with an additional surface float. As used by some boat pikers. It's not a running paternoster like the CD and VB rigs.
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by John Milford »

davelumb wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 19:02 -
John Milford wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 18:49 -
The 'Rolt' two-float (one sunk, one surface) pike paternoster was in use during the reign of Queen Victoria.

Not taking anything away from Vic Bellars or Colin Dyson, but there's nothing new in angling. :pipe:


WJ Cummins page.png
That's just a sunk float paternoster with an additional surface float. As used by some boat pikers. It's not a running paternoster like the CD and VB rigs.
True Dave. The VB & CD rigs were both positive, relatively modern SFP developments (originally developed for eeling, I think?).

I just wanted to illustrate that the SFP, as such, is a very much older pike rig than many might think.
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by davelumb »

John Milford wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 20:35 -
davelumb wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 19:02 -
John Milford wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 18:49 -
The 'Rolt' two-float (one sunk, one surface) pike paternoster was in use during the reign of Queen Victoria.

Not taking anything away from Vic Bellars or Colin Dyson, but there's nothing new in angling. :pipe:


WJ Cummins page.png
That's just a sunk float paternoster with an additional surface float. As used by some boat pikers. It's not a running paternoster like the CD and VB rigs.
True Dave. The VB & CD rigs were both positive, relatively modern SFP developments (originally developed for eeling, I think?).

I just wanted to illustrate that the SFP, as such, is a very much older pike rig than many might think.
:thumbs:

I think it's even older than your example, John.
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by John Milford »

davelumb wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 20:36 -
John Milford wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 20:35 -
davelumb wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 19:02 -
John Milford wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 18:49 -
The 'Rolt' two-float (one sunk, one surface) pike paternoster was in use during the reign of Queen Victoria.

Not taking anything away from Vic Bellars or Colin Dyson, but there's nothing new in angling. :pipe:


WJ Cummins page.png
That's just a sunk float paternoster with an additional surface float. As used by some boat pikers. It's not a running paternoster like the CD and VB rigs.
True Dave. The VB & CD rigs were both positive, relatively modern SFP developments (originally developed for eeling, I think?).

I just wanted to illustrate that the SFP, as such, is a very much older pike rig than many might think.
:thumbs:

I think it's even older than your example, John.
I'd be surprised if the general concept is not centuries older Dave and was periodically 'rediscovered'. Rather like static deadbaiting.
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by davelumb »

John Milford wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 20:46 -
davelumb wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 20:36 -
John Milford wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 20:35 -
davelumb wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 19:02 -
John Milford wrote: Wed Mar 31 2021 18:49 -
The 'Rolt' two-float (one sunk, one surface) pike paternoster was in use during the reign of Queen Victoria.

Not taking anything away from Vic Bellars or Colin Dyson, but there's nothing new in angling. :pipe:


WJ Cummins page.png
That's just a sunk float paternoster with an additional surface float. As used by some boat pikers. It's not a running paternoster like the CD and VB rigs.
True Dave. The VB & CD rigs were both positive, relatively modern SFP developments (originally developed for eeling, I think?).

I just wanted to illustrate that the SFP, as such, is a very much older pike rig than many might think.
:thumbs:

I think it's even older than your example, John.
I'd be surprised if the general concept is not centuries older Dave and was periodically 'rediscovered'. Rather like static deadbaiting.
:thumbs:
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Steven Whybrow »

For me pointless as a deadbait rig,but livebaits a must,if using a big livebait use the bigger float and use a heavier lead so it all keeps in place..
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Steven Whybrow »

For me pointless as a deadbait rig,but livebaits a must,if using a big livebait use the bigger float and use a heavier lead so it all keeps in place..
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Andy Jarvis »

Steven Whybrow wrote: Mon Sep 06 2021 19:48 -
For me pointless as a deadbait rig,but livebaits a must,if using a big livebait use the bigger float and use a heavier lead so it all keeps in place..
Why pointless? I've caught lots of pike using dead baits on paternoster rigs
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Mike J »

Andy Jarvis wrote: Wed Sep 08 2021 09:52 -
Steven Whybrow wrote: Mon Sep 06 2021 19:48 -
For me pointless as a deadbait rig,but livebaits a must,if using a big livebait use the bigger float and use a heavier lead so it all keeps in place..
Why pointless? I've caught lots of pike using dead baits on paternoster rigs

Me to :laughs:

I wasn't going to mention it but will now you've let the cat out of the bag.

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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Steven Whybrow »

Personally don't see the point of using deadbait on a paternoster when you could use a simple ledger rig popped up..surely this rig was made with livebait in mind 😉
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Stewlaws »

A go to for me.. paternoster with a Sardine moving in the the flow on a crease ... Killer method
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Andy Jarvis »

Steven Whybrow wrote: Wed Sep 08 2021 20:13 -
.surely this rig was made with livebait in mind 😉
No, the intention of the rig is to fish a bait up in the water yet hold it in a static position. Also if you were fishing in 10ft of water and wanted the bait 3 or 4ft off the bottom you wouldn't pop it up that far, if for no other reason you'd potentially get very poor bite indication.
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Taylorgilder »

Also popped up a trace length doesn’t work when there’s 2 ft + of silk weed on the bottom so a sunken float paternoster is necessary. Personally had too many tangles with JR booms so tie the lead trace to the hook trace . Or have a swivel free running on wire uptrace to which I attach the lead trace. Both approaches seem to largely avoid tangles.
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Ratty46 »

only thing i can add, is that i find with a pat rig, specially with a livebait, i like to use a 3oz lead min, i find they often hook themselves this way
Pikerd74
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Re: paternoster rigs ?

Post by Pikerd74 »

Ratty46 wrote: Fri Sep 10 2021 12:55 -
only thing i can add, is that i find with a pat rig, specially with a livebait, i like to use a 3oz lead min, i find they often hook themselves this way
I agree with you, I always used a lead as light as possible until I spent sometime fishing with a mate who used heavy leads, like you say 3oz plus. The take was unmissable and the hook placement consistently in the scissors,possibly hooked using the bolt effect.
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