Wire Trace Strength and Length ....Give it to me straight lads

[Taffypiker]

This time of year I am fishing two local rivers with small soft plastics and spinners for trout , perch and chub and not targeting pike but the fact is they are about so I am learning from advice on here to be a responsible predator angler .

When October comes the pike season opens here in the land of the sheep and I will be deliberately targeting pike with lures and deadbait

When I first started last summer the waters were all closed so I bought ready made traces from various sources

One sold 13 pound wire traces, 12 inches long so I bought some of these . I also bought spro and savage gear traces of 14 pound but they were only 8 inches long . Some sold by mikado are only 11 pound strength and just 8 inches long .

Are the 13 pound , 12 inch long traces about as low and as short as I can go if I am mostly targeting trout , perch and chub or do you guys think I would be wise to upgrade both poundage and length to protect the resident pike ?

I have been reading many comments on here saying perch and even shy trout are not put off by 30 pound wire if they are hungry

I have seen underwater footage of pike and the way they engulf a bait whole to me suggests these very short wire traces being sold are not good news for the pike and that 12 inches should be standard ?

What do you guys think ?

Similarly when October comes I assume 30 pound wire , again with a length of 12 inches minimum is needed for lure fishing for pike and perch ?

I don't care that I may have spent 40 quid on inadequate traces of strength and length , I don't want to leave a pike with a soft plastic intended for big perch and trout deep in its throat

Cheers

[Flipflopjoe]

I am using 12lb Ti traces for my Perch/Chub fishing for the first time this season and it's going well.
I've caught enough perch and chub to know it doesn't deter them and I've landed a 12lb(ish) pike on it (accidentally of course) but it handled it no problem.
Previously I was using drenan soft strand in 10lb, a lot thinner than the 12lb Ti I'm using now but it was ok. It curled up a lot after a couple of fish so needed changing regular but it landed me plenty of good fish, including a 22lb pike, but I think that was more luck than an attribute to the drenan soft strand
12 inches is the minimum length I'd have as a trace, if I tie one and its shorter, its binned.

In regards to specific pike traces, I use 50lb SG carbon 49 strand for lures, and SG Raw 49 strand for bait, although I've got some 65lb Ti to try this coming season.
My lure traces are approx 18 inches long.
My bait traces vary as the addition of an uptrace can allow the use of a shorter live/deadbait trace.
I make my uptrace 12-18 inches and obviously the live/deadbait traces must be shorter, but the combined bait/uptrace length be will be ar least 20 inches.

I'm by no means an expert but I try to do things will the fishes welfare in mind.

[John Milford]

Both the traces you've bought sound OK as 'insurance' Taffy - when fishing for trout, perch or chub. Encountering a large pike is not impossible, but unlikely - and you'd still be in with a good chance of avoiding a bite-off with those. Obviously not ideal, but a fair compromise.

When targeting pike, a longer trace is advisable as there is always a small chance of a pike 'wrapping' a short trace around it's head and making the main line vulnerable to being bitten through. My pike lure traces are around 14" - 18" and 20"+ when bait fishing. (They can safely be shorter if they are attached to a secondary 'up-trace').

[Taffypiker]

I am using 12lb Ti traces for my Perch/Chub fishing for the first time this season and it's going well.
I've caught enough perch and chub to know it doesn't deter them and I've landed a 12lb(ish) pike on it (accidentally of course) but it handled it no problem.
Previously I was using drenan soft strand in 10lb, a lot thinner than the 12lb Ti I'm using now but it was ok. It curled up a lot after a couple of fish so needed changing regular but it landed me plenty of good fish, including a 22lb pike, but I think that was more luck than an attribute to the drenan soft strand
12 inches is the minimum length I'd have as a trace, if I tie one and its shorter, its binned.

In regards to specific pike traces, I use 50lb SG carbon 49 strand for lures, and SG Raw 49 strand for bait, although I've got some 65lb Ti to try this coming season.
My lure traces are approx 18 inches long.
My bait traces vary as the addition of an uptrace can allow the use of a shorter live/deadbait trace.
I make my uptrace 12-18 inches and obviously the live/deadbait traces must be shorter, but the combined bait/uptrace length be will be ar least 20 inches.

I'm by no means an expert but I try to do things will the fishes welfare in mind.

Is Ti a brand ?

[Taffypiker]

Both the traces you've bought sound OK as 'insurance' Taffy - when fishing for trout, perch or chub. Encountering a large pike is not impossible, but unlikely - and you'd still be in with a good chance of avoiding a bite-off with those. Obviously not ideal, but a fair compromise.

When targeting pike, a longer trace is advisable as there is always a small chance of a pike 'wrapping' a short trace around it's head and making the main line vulnerable to being bitten through. My pike lure traces are around 14" - 18" and 20"+ when bait fishing. (They can safely be shorter if they are attached to a secondary 'up-trace').

Thanks

I am certainly not going to be using 8 inch traces of 11 pound strength having seen those videos of how pike open up and swallow smaller prey , they appear a complete waste of time given that even a ten pound fish would swallow most of the trace in one go

I personally think that even as a novice these short , fine wire traces are bad news for spinning in areas with occasional pike about , its morally wrong to use a 6 inch .....yes thats the length of some of them .....and 8 pound strength wire trace as insurance against snap offs from pike when spinning for trout , perch and chub ?

[Flipflopjoe]

I am using 12lb Ti traces for my Perch/Chub fishing for the first time this season and it's going well.
I've caught enough perch and chub to know it doesn't deter them and I've landed a 12lb(ish) pike on it (accidentally of course) but it handled it no problem.
Previously I was using drenan soft strand in 10lb, a lot thinner than the 12lb Ti I'm using now but it was ok. It curled up a lot after a couple of fish so needed changing regular but it landed me plenty of good fish, including a 22lb pike, but I think that was more luck than an attribute to the drenan soft strand
12 inches is the minimum length I'd have as a trace, if I tie one and its shorter, its binned.

In regards to specific pike traces, I use 50lb SG carbon 49 strand for lures, and SG Raw 49 strand for bait, although I've got some 65lb Ti to try this coming season.
My lure traces are approx 18 inches long.
My bait traces vary as the addition of an uptrace can allow the use of a shorter live/deadbait trace.
I make my uptrace 12-18 inches and obviously the live/deadbait traces must be shorter, but the combined bait/uptrace length be will be ar least 20 inches.

I'm by no means an expert but I try to do things will the fishes welfare in mind.

Is Ti a brand ?

Sorry, no it’s titanium, I was being lazy

[John Milford]

Both the traces you've bought sound OK as 'insurance' Taffy - when fishing for trout, perch or chub. Encountering a large pike is not impossible, but unlikely - and you'd still be in with a good chance of avoiding a bite-off with those. Obviously not ideal, but a fair compromise.

When targeting pike, a longer trace is advisable as there is always a small chance of a pike 'wrapping' a short trace around it's head and making the main line vulnerable to being bitten through. My pike lure traces are around 14" - 18" and 20"+ when bait fishing. (They can safely be shorter if they are attached to a secondary 'up-trace').

Thanks

I am certainly not going to be using 8 inch traces of 11 pound strength having seen those videos of how pike open up and swallow smaller prey , they appear a complete waste of time given that even a ten pound fish would swallow most of the trace in one go

I personally think that even as a novice these short , fine wire traces are bad news for spinning in areas with occasional pike about , its morally wrong to use a 6 inch .....yes thats the length of some of them .....and 8 pound strength wire trace as insurance against snap offs from pike when spinning for trout , perch and chub ?

I'm not going to argue with you're instincts Taffy, because they are correct.

However, it's worth considering why bite-offs need to avoided from unintended takes from pike before getting into questions of 'morality'.

A small lure left in a pike's mouth is not a huge threat to a pike in itself. They can and do rid themselves of them.

The danger that must be a avoided is that of a lure 'stitching' a pike's throat closed.

Trebles can do this, but singles can't. The chances of a very small lure stitching a sizable pike's throat completely closed, even one with trebles, is extremely remote. (Larger lures with multiple trebles are an entirely different prospect and it is specifically those that present the real danger).

The real risks to a pike taking a very small lure on a short trace can be summed up as the the number of larger pike present, divided by the likelihood of a take, divided by the small chance of a bite off, divided by the remote chance of a throat hook-up.

6" lure traces are an anachronism from the very earliest days of 'American style' baitcasting becoming popular in the UK. People copied the Americans without really thinking about it. They were better than nothing, but not at all sufficient for piking,

You're perfectly right that they still aren't in the overwhelming majority of lure fishing situations.

(And I'm not arguing a case for their use - just examining the 'morality' question! ).

[Flipflopjoe]

Yeah, like john says it’s about weighing up the risks.
When I’m perch/chub fishing, I’m using lures no bigger than 2” long.
Even in a little 2-3lb jack pikes mouth these lures are not big by any means, and this is generally around the size of fish you’re going to be dealing with when using smaller lures, so a light 12” trace is sufficient. Even the low double I hooked on a rattlin’ hornet a week or so ago, I know I can confidently bully a fish like that in to the bank , to a certain degree, using 20lb braid and a 12lb trace.
But……., fish are unpredictable and you may find yourself with a 20+’er grabbing a 2” spikey Shad, the trace gives you a fighting chance of landing the fish, BUT !!!!
Whats the best action ?!?
Take 20-30 minutes landing a hard fighting summer fish of that size in water with depleting dissolved oxygen levels…
Or…..
Pull for a break and leave a 2” Shad in the mouth of a big croc ?!?
I landed it when it happened to me (more by luck that the abilities of my trace as I mentioned previously), but looking back I’d seriously consider snapping off as a fight like that can be a death sentence to a big girl.

I’d have that option with a lighter trace, but if you’re gonna “go big”, you may not !
Just a thought really !!!

[Taffypiker]

Both the traces you've bought sound OK as 'insurance' Taffy - when fishing for trout, perch or chub. Encountering a large pike is not impossible, but unlikely - and you'd still be in with a good chance of avoiding a bite-off with those. Obviously not ideal, but a fair compromise.

When targeting pike, a longer trace is advisable as there is always a small chance of a pike 'wrapping' a short trace around it's head and making the main line vulnerable to being bitten through. My pike lure traces are around 14" - 18" and 20"+ when bait fishing. (They can safely be shorter if they are attached to a secondary 'up-trace').

Thanks

I am certainly not going to be using 8 inch traces of 11 pound strength having seen those videos of how pike open up and swallow smaller prey , they appear a complete waste of time given that even a ten pound fish would swallow most of the trace in one go

I personally think that even as a novice these short , fine wire traces are bad news for spinning in areas with occasional pike about , its morally wrong to use a 6 inch .....yes thats the length of some of them .....and 8 pound strength wire trace as insurance against snap offs from pike when spinning for trout , perch and chub ?

I'm not going to argue with you're instincts Taffy, because they are correct.

However, it's worth considering why bite-offs need to avoided from unintended takes from pike before getting into questions of 'morality'.

A small lure left in a pike's mouth is not a huge threat to a pike in itself. They can and do rid themselves of them.

The danger that must be a avoided is that of a lure 'stitching' a pike's throat closed.

Trebles can do this, but singles can't. The chances of a very small lure stitching a sizable pike's throat completely closed, even one with trebles, is extremely remote. (Larger lures with multiple trebles are an entirely different prospect and it is specifically those that present the real danger).

The real risks to a pike taking a very small lure on a short trace can be summed up as the the number of larger pike present, divided by the likelihood of a take, divided by the small chance of a bite off, divided by the remote chance of a throat hook-up.

6" lure traces are an anachronism from the very earliest days of 'American style' baitcasting becoming popular in the UK. People copied the Americans without really thinking about it. They were better than nothing, but not at all sufficient for piking,

You're perfectly right that they still aren't in the overwhelming majority of lure fishing situations.

(And I'm not arguing a case for their use - just examining the 'morality' question! ).

I certainly won't be using traces of 6 inches long when there is a chance of interest from pike , its a complete waste of time and totally unethical but you need to be told why by experienced predator anglers . I am very angry my local club does not enforce a wire trace rule for people fishing for perch trout and chub as there are pike present and where there is a two pound jack pike there are sure to be his bigger brother and sisters .

I am certainly considering changing the trebles on my spinners to single hooks having read what you have said regarding pike being stitched up

[Taffypiker]

Yeah, like john says it’s about weighing up the risks.
When I’m perch/chub fishing, I’m using lures no bigger than 2” long.
Even in a little 2-3lb jack pikes mouth these lures are not big by any means, and this is generally around the size of fish you’re going to be dealing with when using smaller lures, so a light 12” trace is sufficient. Even the low double I hooked on a rattlin’ hornet a week or so ago, I know I can confidently bully a fish like that in to the bank , to a certain degree, using 20lb braid and a 12lb trace.
But……., fish are unpredictable and you may find yourself with a 20+’er grabbing a 2” spikey Shad, the trace gives you a fighting chance of landing the fish, BUT !!!!
Whats the best action ?!?
Take 20-30 minutes landing a hard fighting summer fish of that size in water with depleting dissolved oxygen levels…
Or…..
Pull for a break and leave a 2” Shad in the mouth of a big croc ?!?
I landed it when it happened to me (more by luck that the abilities of my trace as I mentioned previously), but looking back I’d seriously consider snapping off as a fight like that can be a death sentence to a big girl.

I’d have that option with a lighter trace, but if you’re gonna “go big”, you may not !
Just a thought really !!!

Its a moral maze isn't it ?