Giving up on the circle hooks

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jlawsonvet
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Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by jlawsonvet »

Hi all - I'm not a novice angler, but I am still a novice piker. I've only been deadbaiting the last 2 seasons, and to be honest I would be very surprised if anyone reading this has caught fewer pike than I have. So take all this with that massive caveat.

Despite being relatively green, I'm very keen not to compromise fish welfare (or look like a Noddy on the bank..), so I've spent many hours trawling this forum, as well as chatting to others out and about, and I'm fairly happy with my set up. As part of all this research I came across circle hooks - seemed like a good idea to me, after all I use singles in my other fishing, so why not for piking? I promise you I have read every big thread on this site about circle hooks, including which hooks in which size, what baits in which size, how to attach the baits to the hook, how to attach the hook to the trace, how to tighten up to the fish. If its been written on this site about circles, and you can search it out, I've read it.

The last 2 seasons I've really just been learning where and how to fish the waters near me (balancing this with a young family and not getting out as much as I'd like...), didn't really have a lot of takes, caught a handful of fish. Hard to assess how good the circles were when so few fish were to be had, primarily because I was developing my sense of where and when to fish.

This year, I finally feel like its all coming together. Went out for an evening and had a take which I didn't manage to hook. No big deal, but a good start for me, often go a few sessions without a take.

But went out yesterday for a morning session and had FIVE takes. Proper smashing the drop offs, screaming alarms. Completely unheard of for me, an absolute dream of a day. I had less takes than that in my entire last winter. But, here's the thing. I landed ZERO fish. Four just weren't hooked, and one fell off (presumably was just holding onto the bait rather than properly hooked). I was completely gutted - to be fair I'm still not over it (which is why I've come on here to vent).

I can't help but think if I had trebles on rather than circles I would have landed at least some of these fish. I know there will be those that think I just wasn't winding down as I should, or had the circles rigged wrong. Maybe - but without physically accompanying someone using circles to the bank, and you standing behind me when I get a take like the scene from "ghost" I don't see how I could more closely adjust my rigs/actions to what is described by those that advocate them on this site.

I can't face going back out there and sitting behind rods with circles on after yesterday. We all know that fishing is about confidence, and I've just completely lost confidence in them. I doubt I'll see a session where I get five takes again for a while, but when I do, I'll have trebles on, and maybe I'll have that dream session. I see the theoretical benefits of circles and I don't want to deep hook any fish - but I'm fishing with decent tackle, running rigs with heavy weights, on tight lines with drop offs, and I'm now used to handling pike. Part of fishing is learning from your own experience, and now I've had some painful experience to base my decisions on rather than theory alone!

I'll go back to lurking now :)
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by ken brooks »

I think you have made a sensible decision.
You are obviously fishing slow/hard waters and they are not the type of places
To experiment especially if your confidence is low.
Use the trebles and once you start catching again you can maybe retry the circles at some stage.
You don't learn much not catching.
Good luck mate.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Pinkie »

Silly question but are you striking? Apparently with circle hooks one is not supposed to strike but simply tighten up!

Otherwise I'd use trebles but remove the barbs off except the one to hold the bait on. And I'd only use the one treble.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by jlawsonvet »

Pinkie wrote: Wed Oct 13 2021 15:11 -
Silly question but are you striking? Apparently with circle hooks one is not supposed to strike but simply tighten up!

Otherwise I'd use trebles but remove the barbs off except the one to hold the bait on. And I'd only use the one treble.
Yup, no striking, just tightening up as recommended!
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by John Milford »

At this time of the year especially, screaming takes are not necessarily pike.

You'd be surprised how often carp make off with deadbaits! (I've been jammy enough to land a couple in recent years)

However, I've also missed a fair number of seemingly 'unmissable' fast, positive takes - even when using two trebles - and felt carp were the culprits.

(If you find you're missing slow, steady runs, then it would definitely be time to reevaluate your set up).
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Mercman »

John Milford wrote: Wed Oct 13 2021 15:44 -
At this time of the year especially, screaming takes are not necessarily pike.

You'd be surprised how often carp make off with deadbaits! (I've been jammy enough to land a couple in recent years)

However, I've also missed a fair number of seemingly 'unmissable' fast, positive takes - even when using two trebles - and felt carp were the culprits.

(If you find you're missing slow, steady runs, then it would definitely be time to reevaluate your set up).
Yes that or even Cats tend to scream off with dead baits too
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by suffolk si »

Eels still active and giving me grief on my waters too... not that I’m using circles though🤣
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by stubbojo »

jlawsonvet wrote: Wed Oct 13 2021 14:36 -
Hi all - I'm not a novice angler, but I am still a novice piker. I've only been deadbaiting the last 2 seasons, and to be honest I would be very surprised if anyone reading this has caught fewer pike than I have. So take all this with that massive caveat.

Despite being relatively green, I'm very keen not to compromise fish welfare (or look like a Noddy on the bank..), so I've spent many hours trawling this forum, as well as chatting to others out and about, and I'm fairly happy with my set up. As part of all this research I came across circle hooks - seemed like a good idea to me, after all I use singles in my other fishing, so why not for piking? I promise you I have read every big thread on this site about circle hooks, including which hooks in which size, what baits in which size, how to attach the baits to the hook, how to attach the hook to the trace, how to tighten up to the fish. If its been written on this site about circles, and you can search it out, I've read it.

The last 2 seasons I've really just been learning where and how to fish the waters near me (balancing this with a young family and not getting out as much as I'd like...), didn't really have a lot of takes, caught a handful of fish. Hard to assess how good the circles were when so few fish were to be had, primarily because I was developing my sense of where and when to fish.

This year, I finally feel like its all coming together. Went out for an evening and had a take which I didn't manage to hook. No big deal, but a good start for me, often go a few sessions without a take.

But went out yesterday for a morning session and had FIVE takes. Proper smashing the drop offs, screaming alarms. Completely unheard of for me, an absolute dream of a day. I had less takes than that in my entire last winter. But, here's the thing. I landed ZERO fish. Four just weren't hooked, and one fell off (presumably was just holding onto the bait rather than properly hooked). I was completely gutted - to be fair I'm still not over it (which is why I've come on here to vent).

I can't help but think if I had trebles on rather than circles I would have landed at least some of these fish. I know there will be those that think I just wasn't winding down as I should, or had the circles rigged wrong. Maybe - but without physically accompanying someone using circles to the bank, and you standing behind me when I get a take like the scene from "ghost" I don't see how I could more closely adjust my rigs/actions to what is described by those that advocate them on this site.

I can't face going back out there and sitting behind rods with circles on after yesterday. We all know that fishing is about confidence, and I've just completely lost confidence in them. I doubt I'll see a session where I get five takes again for a while, but when I do, I'll have trebles on, and maybe I'll have that dream session. I see the theoretical benefits of circles and I don't want to deep hook any fish - but I'm fishing with decent tackle, running rigs with heavy weights, on tight lines with drop offs, and I'm now used to handling pike. Part of fishing is learning from your own experience, and now I've had some painful experience to base my decisions on rather than theory alone!

I'll go back to lurking now :)
stopped using circles years back , just missing to many fish , i gave them a good go , but they just didnt do it for me , went back to 2 trebles instant hook ups ,
just strike as soon as you can to avoid deep hooking , no problems with them ..
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Flipflopjoe »

I’ve had a similar experience as you with circles.
It actually started well, landed a couple of jacks initially but ended up missing about 2 out of every 3 takes (maybe more) !?!

The last straw was live baiting on a club water, I had a “pet” in the margins on a VB style circle hook I’d made myself. The float slide away, I waited a couple seconds then tightened down……….nothing !
I quickly flicked my still kicking “pet” back to the spot hoping he was still there. Sure enough the float slid away again after a minute or 2. I waited a few more seconds then tightened down………..nothing !!
“Pet” was just about hanging in there so he went back out to the trenches, a minute or so and again the float slides away. I tightened down……..again…..NOTHING !!!
I’d used the minutes before the take this time wisely tho and I’d pre rigged a fresh bait on a trace with a treble.
Quick change of trace and the new soldier was out on the frontline thinking this must be an absolute Mug Fish if it takes the bait for a fourth time. A minute or so and sure as day the float slides away. I don’t even think I waited this time, I struck straight away, fish on and landed !
Only a jack of around 8lb as I recall but it gave me enough evidence to change my mind on circles, it could’ve been a new PB that would’ve have waited as patiently to get itself caught !!!
I’d also missed a few runs on double hook bait traces (with circles).
Trebles all the way for me now, semi-barbed #6, and #4 for bigger baits, just don’t wait to long to strike and you’ll be fine.
I still drop the odd fish, but that’s to be expected.
I land most of my runs nowa’days !
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by stubbojo »

Flipflopjoe wrote: Thu Oct 14 2021 13:07 -
I’ve had a similar experience as you with circles.
It actually started well, landed a couple of jacks initially but ended up missing about 2 out of every 3 takes (maybe more) !?!

The last straw was live baiting on a club water, I had a “pet” in the margins on a VB style circle hook I’d made myself. The float slide away, I waited a couple seconds then tightened down……….nothing !
I quickly flicked my still kicking “pet” back to the spot hoping he was still there. Sure enough the float slid away again after a minute or 2. I waited a few more seconds then tightened down………..nothing !!
“Pet” was just about hanging in there so he went back out to the trenches, a minute or so and again the float slides away. I tightened down……..again…..NOTHING !!!
I’d used the minutes before the take this time wisely tho and I’d pre rigged a fresh bait on a trace with a treble.
Quick change of trace and the new soldier was out on the frontline thinking this must be an absolute Mug Fish if it takes the bait for a fourth time. A minute or so and sure as day the float slides away. I don’t even think I waited this time, I struck straight away, fish on and landed !
Only a jack of around 8lb as I recall but it gave me enough evidence to change my mind on circles, it could’ve been a new PB that would’ve have waited as patiently to get itself caught !!!
I’d also missed a few runs on double hook bait traces (with circles).
Trebles all the way for me now, semi-barbed #6, and #4 for bigger baits, just don’t wait to long to strike and you’ll be fine.
I still drop the odd fish, but that’s to be expected.
I land most of my runs nowa’days !
there crap too when targeting perch .......size 4 carp type hook slightly off set .....
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Smoothound »

I'm along the same lines but not using circles! I've been twice no this week using 2x singles, 3 runs, all 3 on for a short time but all spat the hooks or possibly not hooked and just dropped the bait. Bloke in the next swim today had 6 runs and 4 fish 🙄🙄
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Steve Dennington »

I've used circles exclusively for the last couple of seasons and I'm more than happy with the ratio of runs to fish. I've hooked up on at least as many as I'd expect with trebles and only one fish has come off after hooking up (a jack that was right under the boat when I wound down and I'm actually not convinced that it was even hooked when it spat the bait back at me at boatside).

However, if that situation changes because of behaviour of the fish on a particular water or time of year and the ratio takes a nose-dive, I'd be happy to use trebles again.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by stubbojo »

Steve Dennington wrote: Thu Oct 14 2021 18:16 -
I've used circles exclusively for the last couple of seasons and I'm more than happy with the ratio of runs to fish. I've hooked up on at least as many as I'd expect with trebles and only one fish has come off after hooking up (a jack that was right under the boat when I wound down and I'm actually not convinced that it was even hooked when it spat the bait back at me at boatside).

However, if that situation changes because of behaviour of the fish on a particular water or time of year and the ratio takes a nose-dive, I'd be happy to use trebles again.
i honestly beleive single hooks get scoffed down very quickly leading to deep hooking as a treble in my book gets caught up quicker in the mouthparts of a pike
but i strike very early , just as the float begins to judder as the pike has the bait in its mouth already .......better to lose a few , which i dont on average... than to leave for say 15 to 20 seconds..... it can be down its throat by then
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Flipflopjoe »

stubbojo wrote: Thu Oct 14 2021 19:38 -
Steve Dennington wrote: Thu Oct 14 2021 18:16 -
I've used circles exclusively for the last couple of seasons and I'm more than happy with the ratio of runs to fish. I've hooked up on at least as many as I'd expect with trebles and only one fish has come off after hooking up (a jack that was right under the boat when I wound down and I'm actually not convinced that it was even hooked when it spat the bait back at me at boatside).

However, if that situation changes because of behaviour of the fish on a particular water or time of year and the ratio takes a nose-dive, I'd be happy to use trebles again.
i honestly beleive single hooks get scoffed down very quickly leading to deep hooking as a treble in my book gets caught up quicker in the mouthparts of a pike
but i strike very early , just as the float begins to judder as the pike has the bait in its mouth already .......better to lose a few , which i dont on average... than to leave for say 15 to 20 seconds..... it can be down its throat by then
Not sure I’d necessarily agree that singles slip down quicker but about striking I defo agree, I never normally wait more that a few seconds to strike.
But to the OP, look up the methods on how to deal with a deep hooked fish, using trebles or singles, if you pike fish long enough it’s inevitable you’ll get a greedy fecker scoff the bait quicker than you can get to your rods. I’ve dealt with 2 and I’m fairly confident they went back strong enough to survive the ordeal, but only because I’d researched it before hand and also got some advice and tips from more experienced pikers.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Steve Dennington »

stubbojo wrote: Thu Oct 14 2021 19:38 -
Steve Dennington wrote: Thu Oct 14 2021 18:16 -
I've used circles exclusively for the last couple of seasons and I'm more than happy with the ratio of runs to fish. I've hooked up on at least as many as I'd expect with trebles and only one fish has come off after hooking up (a jack that was right under the boat when I wound down and I'm actually not convinced that it was even hooked when it spat the bait back at me at boatside).

However, if that situation changes because of behaviour of the fish on a particular water or time of year and the ratio takes a nose-dive, I'd be happy to use trebles again.
i honestly beleive single hooks get scoffed down very quickly leading to deep hooking as a treble in my book gets caught up quicker in the mouthparts of a pike
but i strike very early , just as the float begins to judder as the pike has the bait in its mouth already .......better to lose a few , which i dont on average... than to leave for say 15 to 20 seconds..... it can be down its throat by then
It is a little unnerving to start off with, leaving runs that bit longer with a circle hook. I'm yet to deep hook a single fish with a circle though, and 90%+ are unhooked with nothing more than my fingers. Other than the increased potential for dropped runs (on those occasions I've been left wondering if a swift strike with trebles would have resulted in a hooked fish) I see very little in the way of negatives to their use and I'm happy to enter a third season with them.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by jlawsonvet »

As an update, I've been back to this same swim a couple of times now with trebles. Like clockwork, at almost precisely the same time as the dropped runs on the circles, I got a take in the same place, and this time it resulted in a hook up and a fish on the bank. Just a jack, didn't weigh it as wanted to get it back ASAP but probably in the region of 5-6 lb - potentially why the circles weren't getting a good hookup?

I went back the next week and caught the same fish at the same time, so fairly sure it was this mugfish that was taking the baits previously, and don't feel so bad about missing the previous takes. Won't be heading to this swim any more though, as don't want to catch him again, poor sod! Threw a couple of leftover deads into his lurking spot before I left to say thanks!

On review I am happy with my choice to switch, but I don't know if I want to fully chuck the circles just yet - I might just keep them on one rod this season and see how this compares with the trebles.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad »

Circles definitely land you less imo but I'm sure that most of the ones you miss are small or nuisance species and as Mike J says, there is a logical chance of you getting a run from the same fish minutes later.
I dont fish trebles anymore, not saying I wont ever, just not at present. I noticed one winter when I caught 120 fish after x mass, often after dark and hand landed many, that the top hook was doing the vast majority of the work, after a good bit of testing one rod against another I concluded that the best set up for me, the pike and for the net while dead baiting was a double hook like a vb down the flank and a large single in the tail, hook up rates against a pair of trebles was very slightly better and way less fuss. I did test using just one large single but hook up rates dropped a bit but was still better than circles.

I feel it very important to use modest sized baits, when baits like this are used, hook up rates improve no matter what hook configuration is used and suits an early strike.

Cheers Alan
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Steve Dennington »

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote: Tue Dec 07 2021 09:33 -
Circles definitely land you less imo but I'm sure that most of the ones you miss are small or nuisance species and as Mike J says, there is a logical chance of you getting a run from the same fish minutes later.
I dont fish trebles anymore, not saying I wont ever, just not at present. I noticed one winter when I caught 120 fish after x mass, often after dark and hand landed many, that the top hook was doing the vast majority of the work, after a good bit of testing one rod against another I concluded that the best set up for me, the pike and for the net while dead baiting was a double hook like a vb down the flank and a large single in the tail, hook up rates against a pair of trebles was very slightly better and way less fuss. I did test using just one large single but hook up rates dropped a bit but was still better than circles.

I feel it very important to use modest sized baits, when baits like this are used, hook up rates improve no matter what hook configuration is used and suits an early strike.

Cheers Alan
Totally agree with that - small baits are important. I haven't done much bait fishing this winter, but three runs on circles have resulted in three fish, so I can't agree with the circles landing fewer fish. I get near enough the same conversion rate as trebles, but that certainly wasn't the case when I first started using them!
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Mike J »

Steve Dennington wrote: Tue Dec 07 2021 09:59 -
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote: Tue Dec 07 2021 09:33 -
Circles definitely land you less imo but I'm sure that most of the ones you miss are small or nuisance species and as Mike J says, there is a logical chance of you getting a run from the same fish minutes later.
I dont fish trebles anymore, not saying I wont ever, just not at present. I noticed one winter when I caught 120 fish after x mass, often after dark and hand landed many, that the top hook was doing the vast majority of the work, after a good bit of testing one rod against another I concluded that the best set up for me, the pike and for the net while dead baiting was a double hook like a vb down the flank and a large single in the tail, hook up rates against a pair of trebles was very slightly better and way less fuss. I did test using just one large single but hook up rates dropped a bit but was still better than circles.

I feel it very important to use modest sized baits, when baits like this are used, hook up rates improve no matter what hook configuration is used and suits an early strike.

Cheers Alan
Totally agree with that - small baits are important. I haven't done much bait fishing this winter, but three runs on circles have resulted in three fish, so I can't agree with the circles landing fewer fish. I get near enough the same conversion rate as trebles, but that certainly wasn't the case when I first started using them!

Steve wrote "I get near enough the same conversion rate as trebles, but that certainly wasn't the case when I first started using them!"
And there is a the real answer why many give up using circle hooks, they simply do not use them long enough to learn the correct method of hooking a fish.

I still predict J hooks will be replaced by circle hooks within 25years or so, legislation will ensure it happens, same as lead shot and fox hunting, the public will make it happen.

.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad »

Steve Dennington wrote: Tue Dec 07 2021 09:59 -
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote: Tue Dec 07 2021 09:33 -
Circles definitely land you less imo but I'm sure that most of the ones you miss are small or nuisance species and as Mike J says, there is a logical chance of you getting a run from the same fish minutes later.
I dont fish trebles anymore, not saying I wont ever, just not at present. I noticed one winter when I caught 120 fish after x mass, often after dark and hand landed many, that the top hook was doing the vast majority of the work, after a good bit of testing one rod against another I concluded that the best set up for me, the pike and for the net while dead baiting was a double hook like a vb down the flank and a large single in the tail, hook up rates against a pair of trebles was very slightly better and way less fuss. I did test using just one large single but hook up rates dropped a bit but was still better than circles.

I feel it very important to use modest sized baits, when baits like this are used, hook up rates improve no matter what hook configuration is used and suits an early strike.

Cheers Alan
Totally agree with that - small baits are important. I haven't done much bait fishing this winter, but three runs on circles have resulted in three fish, so I can't agree with the circles landing fewer fish. I get near enough the same conversion rate as trebles, but that certainly wasn't the case when I first started using them!
I think why I feel circles land fewer fish (but only just) could be down to simply missing the smaller ones more often which is fine by me!
At the end of the day, I am 100% more likely to use circles this coming campaign than a pair of trebles.
Once hooked up, circles are better at staying hooked up imo.

Cheers, Alan
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Steve Dennington »

Mike J wrote: Tue Dec 07 2021 11:12 -

Steve wrote "I get near enough the same conversion rate as trebles, but that certainly wasn't the case when I first started using them!"
And there is a the real answer why many give up using circle hooks, they simply do not use them long enough to learn the correct method of hooking a fish.

I still predict J hooks will be replaced by circle hooks within 25years or so, legislation will ensure it happens, same as lead shot and fox hunting, the public will make it happen.

.
I can't see J hooks ever being banned, but you never know.

There is a learning curve with circles. If you treat them exactly like trebles, you'll end up back on trebles, convinced that they "don't work for pike". The pike's mouth is tailor made for circles, with a sharp scissors area and a pronounced ridge for the hook to turn and find a hold.

Used with small/half baits though, circles are definitely effective and very fish friendly.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by stubbojo »

steve have you ever seen how fast a pike can swallow a bait , its unreal... my argument is 2 trebles in a size 4 , actually gets caught up quicker before it gets to the throat area
but you have to strike very early , as you said treat them like trebles means strike very early , but people are inclined to leave circles to long i have found ....not saying you are steve....
everyone should give them ago to find out themselves , i did but missed to many....... as i strike very early .......
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Steve Dennington »

stubbojo wrote: Tue Dec 07 2021 22:48 -
steve have you ever seen how fast a pike can swallow a bait , its unreal... my argument is 2 trebles in a size 4 , actually gets caught up quicker before it gets to the throat area
but you have to strike very early , as you said treat them like trebles means strike very early , but people are inclined to leave circles to long i have found ....not saying you are steve....
everyone should give them ago to find out themselves , i did but missed to many....... as i strike very early .......
That's the complete opposite of what I said! :eek:

I actually said that if you treat circles like trebles, you'll end up back on trebles, because you'll miss loads of takes. I'm going to freely admit that I absolutely do leave takes "too long" on circles. However, "too long" is open to conjecture.

Trebles don't get "caught up", they get swallowed and then it's an ordeal to get them back out. The last time I had to invert a stomach was presumably a crack-off, because the two trebles were so deep. I got them out and I hope the fish survived. That was after I unhooked the fish with nothing more than my fingers with my own hook.

Anyway, this is my third winter on circles and I've probably pushed the parameters a bit too far in order to see how long a run can be left. The result? Not one single deep hooked pike. Measuring the bend in the fresh trace caused by the scissors could only have meant that the hook was in the stomach of one of the fish when I wound down. The hook, however, was cleanly in the scissors.

I remain utterly convinced that without an offset circle hooks do exactly what they are designed and do not gut hook. If I see empirical evidence to the contrary, I'll have a rethink, but worthless conjecture achieves nothing.

Please don't construe the above as a "fish at any cost" mentality" as nothing could be further from the truth. Part of my rationale in switching to circles was that I am no longer as bothered as I used to be whether I catch or not, so I'm not going to go home crying if I miss out on a few fish.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad »

Most people tend to mount their deadbaits tail up and pike tend to take deadbaits head 1st meaning the bait and the hooks can go back quite quickly with the rig going in how you intend to hook the fish and the hooks not catching hold until the angler sets them, this method relies on a prompt response from the angler to work properly and reliably.
After landing the fish the mouth will usually have to be opened with one hand and a pair of forceps used to remove the hooks with the other hand.
And now for circles...........

Cheers, Alan
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Mike J »

Alan quote "Once hooked up, circles are better at staying hooked up imo."
I used to troll for Marlin alone, when a fish was hooked up with a circle hook I could put the rod back in the holder while I brought the other lines inboard and the fish would still be on the hook when I picked up the rod, the hook-up was so secure I never lost a single fish, ever. With J hooks losses (or long line releases as they are called) were a regular occurrence, the fish throwing the hook whilst doing its aerial antics eg; 9 hooked, 3 tagged and released, my worst day.

Steve quote "Measuring the bend in the fresh trace caused by the scissors could only have meant that the hook was in the stomach of one of the fish when I wound down. The hook, however, was cleanly in the scissors."
The bend in the wire is a clear indication and something the newer users of circle hooks can look for when learning to time the tightening of the line.

.
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by stubbojo »

Steve Dennington wrote: Wed Dec 08 2021 00:18 -
stubbojo wrote: Tue Dec 07 2021 22:48 -
steve have you ever seen how fast a pike can swallow a bait , its unreal... my argument is 2 trebles in a size 4 , actually gets caught up quicker before it gets to the throat area
but you have to strike very early , as you said treat them like trebles means strike very early , but people are inclined to leave circles to long i have found ....not saying you are steve....
everyone should give them ago to find out themselves , i did but missed to many....... as i strike very early .......
That's the complete opposite of what I said! :eek:

I actually said that if you treat circles like trebles, you'll end up back on trebles, because you'll miss loads of takes. I'm going to freely admit that I absolutely do leave takes "too long" on circles. However, "too long" is open to conjecture.

Trebles don't get "caught up", they get swallowed and then it's an ordeal to get them back out. The last time I had to invert a stomach was presumably a crack-off, because the two trebles were so deep. I got them out and I hope the fish survived. That was after I unhooked the fish with nothing more than my fingers with my own hook.

Anyway, this is my third winter on circles and I've probably pushed the parameters a bit too far in order to see how long a run can be left. The result? Not one single deep hooked pike. Measuring the bend in the fresh trace caused by the scissors could only have meant that the hook was in the stomach of one of the fish when I wound down. The hook, however, was cleanly in the scissors.

I remain utterly convinced that without an offset circle hooks do exactly what they are designed and do not gut hook. If I see empirical evidence to the contrary, I'll have a rethink, but worthless conjecture achieves nothing.

Please don't construe the above as a "fish at any cost" mentality" as nothing could be further from the truth. Part of my rationale in switching to circles was that I am no longer as bothered as I used to be whether I catch or not, so I'm not going to go home crying if I miss out on a few fish.
trebles get swallowed......, thats only if you leave it too long , think i got it right first time me thinks , to me there no need to leave circles longer, the longer you leave it the more chance of deep hooking ,been fishing with trebles over 40 odd years and only had one incident as regards to deep hooking ....
that incident was on a canal leapfrogging about every 30 yards my fault really as i dropped the float rig in the water ,and went back to fetch my other rod , literally seconds but the pike had taken it straight away , but still managed to get the hooks out , i suppose its about confidence in your set up used correctly works fine , my fish are normally caught in the front of the jaw , and as of late only one hook involved .........any body not confident in using treable should use singles , cant see a problem in that
some people really do struggle unhooking pike and are not confident doing so .....
and as we get older steve are fingers get a bit narly and stiff mine included so it can get harder to unhook fish so single hooks are the best option .....

regards stubbo
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad »

After watching pike take fish/baits in tanks, in the wild and on underwater footage its clear that for the majority of times modest sized meals are taken fully into the mouth within seconds(often instantly) and some part of the meal will be close to the opening to the throat.
A few years ago when catching plenty of pike from my old marina I noticed that although I tried to set the hooks quickly, on too many occasions the bottom hook was dangerously close the throat. I realised that the way I was setting the hooks upon the live bait was the issue. What I was doing was setting the bottom hook in the lip and the top hook in the dorsal root, the pike was as usual taking head 1st most times so basically the fist thing the entered the pikes mouth was a hook. This I corrected by putting the top hook in the tail and the bottom hook in the dorsal root, problem solved! since then I always fish live baits that way and think this work better regarding most rigs, attracting more takes.
So when fishing a pair of trebles, try to keep the hooks away from the end of the bait you think will enter 1st most times,so thats means tail and flank hooking for most deadbaits and as above for "volunteers"!

I think its important for a circle to turn so to me that means they are better off being hair rigged and again because of the way pike take baits most times, they should be hair rigged off the tail, a "little" time allows for the bait to be taken back in the mouth while the rig helps the bait to go in head or cut end 1st. The hook should now be in a position to catch nicely in the corner of the mouth. I did find the semi fixed lead a logical and quite successful method, I like the way a running fish will have to toe the lead making it difficult to eject and ready for the angler, the real or the lead or all of the above to set the hook neatly in the corner of the mouth. I was using short hooklinks of less than a foot with an uptrace.
People obviously do very well with running leads and winding down so what ever suits.
I agree with , Steve in that if you treat circles like trebles you will end up back using trebles.
I have never fished a "volunteer" with a circle and haven't even though about how to set one???

Cheers , Alan
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by stubbojo »

thats how i fix the hooks allen always nearer the tail helps to keep away from the throat area and a early strike
not trying to put people off using singles , in any way ...people should compare them against there usual set up ....... like i said i have tried.... but was not really impressed with the end result which was missed runs ...if they work for you stick with them

regards stubbo
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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad »

stubbojo wrote: Thu Dec 09 2021 01:27 -
thats how i fix the hooks allen always nearer the tail helps to keep away from the throat area and a early strike
not trying to put people off using singles , in any way ...people should compare them against there usual set up ....... like i said i have tried.... but was not really impressed with the end result which was missed runs ...if they work for you stick with them

regards stubbo
:thumbs:

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Re: Giving up on the circle hooks

Post by Steve Dennington »

stubbojo wrote: Thu Dec 09 2021 00:01 -
trebles get swallowed......, thats only if you leave it too long , think i got it right first time me thinks , to me there no need to leave circles longer, the longer you leave it the more chance of deep hooking ,been fishing with trebles over 40 odd years and only had one incident as regards to deep hooking ....
that incident was on a canal leapfrogging about every 30 yards my fault really as i dropped the float rig in the water ,and went back to fetch my other rod , literally seconds but the pike had taken it straight away , but still managed to get the hooks out , i suppose its about confidence in your set up used correctly works fine , my fish are normally caught in the front of the jaw , and as of late only one hook involved .........any body not confident in using treable should use singles , cant see a problem in that
some people really do struggle unhooking pike and are not confident doing so .....
and as we get older steve are fingers get a bit narly and stiff mine included so it can get harder to unhook fish so single hooks are the best option .....

regards stubbo
Sometimes you don't get to make the decision unfortunately. On a couple of occasions I had the bottom treble out of sight having reeled in to recast, with no indication received at all.

I can remove deep trebles as well as anyone else, but I can't imagine that it does the fish any favours even if the hook(s) are successfully removed. That said, I have had recaptures of such fish :smile:
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