Titanium !

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Flipflopjoe
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Titanium !

Post by Flipflopjoe » Mon May 17 2021 11:45

Hello all,
Looking at making the switch to titanium this coming pike season and think I’m gonna use the Knot 2 Kinky in 65lb for my traces.
I see they go all the way down to 6lb so was thinking of using it for my summer chub/perch luring, probably in 12lb bs.
Has or does anyone use it in the lighter bs for this reason ? And how does it perform with the lighter lures ?
Cranks and softs ranging from 5-15g?
TIA !

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Re: Titanium !

Post by peteren » Mon May 17 2021 15:42

I've used 12lb K2K for similar perch / chub setups for years - best light traces IMHO; more jackproof than multistrands. Coped with pike to 18lb too..

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Flipflopjoe » Mon May 17 2021 16:45

peteren wrote:
I've used 12lb K2K for similar perch / chub setups for years - best light traces IMHO; more jackproof than multistrands. Coped with pike to 18lb too..
Sounds good then !
Do you tie yours or use crimps ?
I’m not a fan of crimps :no:

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Re: Titanium !

Post by peteren » Mon May 17 2021 17:50

Flipflopjoe wrote:
peteren wrote:
I've used 12lb K2K for similar perch / chub setups for years - best light traces IMHO; more jackproof than multistrands. Coped with pike to 18lb too..
Sounds good then !
Do you tie yours or use crimps ?
I’m not a fan of crimps :no:
Just a two turn blood knot; tightened by pulling tag ends; easier with the 12lb than thicker strains!

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Flipflopjoe
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Re: Titanium !

Post by Flipflopjoe » Mon May 17 2021 19:55

peteren wrote:
Flipflopjoe wrote:
peteren wrote:
I've used 12lb K2K for similar perch / chub setups for years - best light traces IMHO; more jackproof than multistrands. Coped with pike to 18lb too..
Sounds good then !
Do you tie yours or use crimps ?
I’m not a fan of crimps :no:
Just a two turn blood knot; tightened by pulling tag ends; easier with the 12lb than thicker strains!
Cheers for the info :thumbs:

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Flipflopjoe
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Re: Titanium !

Post by Flipflopjoe » Mon Jun 14 2021 10:59

I’m reviving this thread to ask a question....
What knots are people using to tie their titanium traces ?
I tried the “clinch knot” (I’ve always called it a blood knot) pictured on the back of the pack but that was a disaster.
I managed to tie a few using a “figure of 8” which is what I normally use with my 49 strand wire traces but it want easy.
And that was with the 12lb stuff !
I hate to think what it’ll be like when I try it on the 65lb stuff I’ve got :dizzy:

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Flipflopjoe » Mon Jun 14 2021 11:00

peteren wrote:
Flipflopjoe wrote:
peteren wrote:
I've used 12lb K2K for similar perch / chub setups for years - best light traces IMHO; more jackproof than multistrands. Coped with pike to 18lb too..
Sounds good then !
Do you tie yours or use crimps ?
I’m not a fan of crimps :no:
Just a two turn blood knot; tightened by pulling tag ends; easier with the 12lb than thicker strains!
How do you do this without causing kinks ???

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Re: Titanium !

Post by John Milford » Mon Jun 14 2021 12:45

Flipflopjoe wrote:
I’m reviving this thread to ask a question....
What knots are people using to tie their titanium traces ?
I tried the “clinch knot” (I’ve always called it a blood knot) pictured on the back of the pack but that was a disaster.
I managed to tie a few using a “figure of 8” which is what I normally use with my 49 strand wire traces but it want easy.
And that was with the 12lb stuff !
I hate to think what it’ll be like when I try it on the 65lb stuff I’ve got :dizzy:
Your experience with Ti is the same as mine Joe.

Horrible stuff to make neat connections with and if you put a permanent kink in it in the process, you have knackered it.

You can break kinked Ti, even in heavy b.s,. with your bare hands as it becomes extremely brittle once stressed to that extent.

I invite anyone to try it for themselves. Kink it and then tug it - and see what happens!
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Mike J » Mon Jun 14 2021 14:13

Flipflopjoe wrote:
I’m reviving this thread to ask a question....
What knots are people using to tie their titanium traces ?
I tried the “clinch knot” (I’ve always called it a blood knot) pictured on the back of the pack but that was a disaster.
I managed to tie a few using a “figure of 8” which is what I normally use with my 49 strand wire traces but it want easy.
And that was with the 12lb stuff !
I hate to think what it’ll be like when I try it on the 65lb stuff I’ve got :dizzy:

Have you tried heating it?

PM sent.
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Re: Titanium !

Post by Steve Dennington » Mon Jun 14 2021 14:17

Flipflopjoe wrote:
peteren wrote:
Flipflopjoe wrote:
peteren wrote:
I've used 12lb K2K for similar perch / chub setups for years - best light traces IMHO; more jackproof than multistrands. Coped with pike to 18lb too..
Sounds good then !
Do you tie yours or use crimps ?
I’m not a fan of crimps :no:
Just a two turn blood knot; tightened by pulling tag ends; easier with the 12lb than thicker strains!
How do you do this without causing kinks ???
Pull the tag end only to tighten the knot :thumbs:

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Flipflopjoe
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Re: Titanium !

Post by Flipflopjoe » Mon Jun 14 2021 18:24

John Milford wrote:
Flipflopjoe wrote:
I’m reviving this thread to ask a question....
What knots are people using to tie their titanium traces ?
I tried the “clinch knot” (I’ve always called it a blood knot) pictured on the back of the pack but that was a disaster.
I managed to tie a few using a “figure of 8” which is what I normally use with my 49 strand wire traces but it want easy.
And that was with the 12lb stuff !
I hate to think what it’ll be like when I try it on the 65lb stuff I’ve got :dizzy:
Your experience with Ti is the same as mine Joe.

Horrible stuff to make neat connections with and if you put a permanent kink in it in the process, you have knackered it.

You can break kinked Ti, even in heavy b.s,. with your bare hands as it becomes extremely brittle once stressed to that extent.

I invite anyone to try it for themselves. Kink it and then tug it - and see what happens!
Yes !
Not easy to make nest and that frustrates me :mad:
I’ve heard it’s massively jeopardised if linked so I was careful to check and ensure the traces I made were not !

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Flipflopjoe » Mon Jun 14 2021 18:26

Mike J wrote:
Flipflopjoe wrote:
I’m reviving this thread to ask a question....
What knots are people using to tie their titanium traces ?
I tried the “clinch knot” (I’ve always called it a blood knot) pictured on the back of the pack but that was a disaster.
I managed to tie a few using a “figure of 8” which is what I normally use with my 49 strand wire traces but it want easy.
And that was with the 12lb stuff !
I hate to think what it’ll be like when I try it on the 65lb stuff I’ve got :dizzy:

Have you tried heating it?

PM sent.
Heating it !
I’m assuming this’ll make it more supple when knotting it ?!?
Does it not reduce the bs doing this ???

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Flipflopjoe » Mon Jun 14 2021 18:28

Steve Dennington wrote:
Flipflopjoe wrote:
peteren wrote:
Flipflopjoe wrote:
peteren wrote:
I've used 12lb K2K for similar perch / chub setups for years - best light traces IMHO; more jackproof than multistrands. Coped with pike to 18lb too..
Sounds good then !
Do you tie yours or use crimps ?
I’m not a fan of crimps :no:
Just a two turn blood knot; tightened by pulling tag ends; easier with the 12lb than thicker strains!
How do you do this without causing kinks ???
Pull the tag end only to tighten the knot :thumbs:
I got to this conclusion after a few binned lengths !

Holding the trace in a wide loop with a tea towel and pull the tag end :thumbs:

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Re: Titanium !

Post by stubbojo » Mon Jun 14 2021 19:26

peteren wrote:
I've used 12lb K2K for similar perch / chub setups for years - best light traces IMHO; more jackproof than multistrands. Coped with pike to 18lb too..
just going to say , be mindful of pike and what size you could hook up with , dont think , the perch or chub are looking at trace thickness so go heavier rather than lighter
i use 20lb braid and 20lb wire if i do chase perch in summer , makes no difference to the fish ........

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Re: Titanium !

Post by stubbojo » Mon Jun 14 2021 19:33

Flipflopjoe wrote:
Hello all,
Looking at making the switch to titanium this coming pike season and think I’m gonna use the Knot 2 Kinky in 65lb for my traces.
I see they go all the way down to 6lb so was thinking of using it for my summer chub/perch luring, probably in 12lb bs.
Has or does anyone use it in the lighter bs for this reason ? And how does it perform with the lighter lures ?
Cranks and softs ranging from 5-15g?
TIA !
tried most wires over the years , i did give it a go , but sadly it never lived up to advantages if any , kept slipping and its the only wire i have lost lures on trolling and expensive lesson well learned , never used it since ..... :shrug:

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Richard. » Tue Jun 15 2021 21:52

I really don’t see any point in Ti traces over stainless.
Ti is lighter and has a higher strength yes So in theory it’s going to take more abuse before it kinks but once it kinks it’s totally knackered. The worst thing is Ti hates permanent deformation. Twisting, crimping or knotting are all bad for this metal. Heating can help but that also causes surface oxides which can effect Ti’s strength. It’s why it’s welded in a completely inert atmosphere to obtain a strong joint.
It might be strong but I bet the failure rate is quite high especially from anglers that are new to it and don’t understand it’s limits to being deformed.

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Mike J » Wed Jun 16 2021 08:38

Richard. wrote:
I really don’t see any point in Ti traces over stainless.
Ti is lighter and has a higher strength yes So in theory it’s going to take more abuse before it kinks but once it kinks it’s totally knackered. The worst thing is Ti hates permanent deformation. Twisting, crimping or knotting are all bad for this metal. Heating can help but that also causes surface oxides which can effect Ti’s strength. It’s why it’s welded in a completely inert atmosphere to obtain a strong joint.
It might be strong but I bet the failure rate is quite high especially from anglers that are new to it and don’t understand it’s limits to being deformed.

Now beyond 40years of using stainless single strand for many branches of angling and agree with you with one exception.

Chico's leaders are crimped and they are not at all bad, in fact they seem to last forever, plus they dont kink as easily as single strand.
Bought half a dozen and still using my first after five years of use.

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'No Man Ever Fishes The Same River Twice, .... For It Is Not The Same River, .... And He Is Not The Same Man' Heraclitus of Ephesus

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Mark Phillips » Fri Jun 18 2021 19:50

Richard. wrote:
I really don’t see any point in Ti traces over stainless.
Ti is lighter and has a higher strength yes So in theory it’s going to take more abuse before it kinks but once it kinks it’s totally knackered. The worst thing is Ti hates permanent deformation. Twisting, crimping or knotting are all bad for this metal. Heating can help but that also causes surface oxides which can effect Ti’s strength. It’s why it’s welded in a completely inert atmosphere to obtain a strong joint.
It might be strong but I bet the failure rate is quite high especially from anglers that are new to it and don’t understand it’s limits to being deformed.
I'd re-think that one Sir.

I only use titanium leaders, permanently switched over about 15 years ago. I crimp the connections (never knot it), after doubling back the wire, which is important. Failure rate, I'd estimate less than 1% and longevity is way (way) beyond any stainless wire. Of course they're not bullet proof, but bloody close; it takes something awkward (couldn't think of a better word) to happen to kink the wire, but that's really not a common occurrence, especially in higher diameters. I use it for all my lure fishing and I mean all; be it chucking big jerk or swim baits, right down to vertical jigging for zander with very small lures or spinning for chub where pike are present (as I was yesterday). I find the clip on the leader is the only thing that wears. I can't even remember the last time I had to make any new leaders, which I think sums it up. Ti offers incredible longevity, strength and reliability - if you construct the leader properly and therein lies the rub I suppose. I see no reason to use stainless wire for lure fishing whatsoever - utter no brainer IMO.
Piking Plonker

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Richard. » Sat Jun 19 2021 01:19

Fair enough.
I can only really comment on that material from a fabrication point of view rather than any real experience with it for a leader. I’ve built afew bike exhaust systems with it and it’s far from the easiest stuff to work with from a deforming perspective which made me wonder about its ability to make sound traces from. Id of thought slippage and breakage failures to be fairly common but it sounds like it just requires a bit of experience in making them up.
Yes I can quite believe they will be way less susceptible to kinks over stainless. It’s a far tougher metal.

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Kev Berry » Sat Jun 19 2021 08:00

I gave up using Ti as bait traces having had broken wires in the loop and in the middle of the trace on brand new traces
Believe me i tried all sorts of methods regards forming a loop.
The supplier said it was probably a "bad batch" (no refund from the tight b*****d)
Well ive never had a "bad batch" in the stainless wire department...so back to wire.
At least if there is a fault in stainless wire you can see it....kinks/curls etc ...time to change it.
49 strand wire lasts forever especially if you only use 1 hook.
Dont do much lure fishing so cant really comment on lure traces made of Ti .
Did make some up from knot to kinky....found best way was as Mike said. Three times through crimp but Heat tag end up and fold it over before crimping it. Doesnt always hold it solid and can slip and tighten down but doesnt come apart. Usually happens when you get snagged and have to pull lure free

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Lukemilnes » Sat Jun 19 2021 08:38

Cant fault AFW titanium both single strand and their 7 strand which has a bit more flex to it. I use it for traces aswell as shallow stinger rigs for soft plastics. Never had anything fail and it literally lasts forever. There is a technique to making them and as mentioned above that's potentially where the issues come from.

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Cod » Sat Jun 19 2021 22:03

Mark Phillips wrote:
Richard. wrote:
I really don’t see any point in Ti traces over stainless.
Ti is lighter and has a higher strength yes So in theory it’s going to take more abuse before it kinks but once it kinks it’s totally knackered. The worst thing is Ti hates permanent deformation. Twisting, crimping or knotting are all bad for this metal. Heating can help but that also causes surface oxides which can effect Ti’s strength. It’s why it’s welded in a completely inert atmosphere to obtain a strong joint.
It might be strong but I bet the failure rate is quite high especially from anglers that are new to it and don’t understand it’s limits to being deformed.
I'd re-think that one Sir.

I only use titanium leaders, permanently switched over about 15 years ago. I crimp the connections (never knot it), after doubling back the wire, which is important. Failure rate, I'd estimate less than 1% and longevity is way (way) beyond any stainless wire. Of course they're not bullet proof, but bloody close; it takes something awkward (couldn't think of a better word) to happen to kink the wire, but that's really not a common occurrence, especially in higher diameters. I use it for all my lure fishing and I mean all; be it chucking big jerk or swim baits, right down to vertical jigging for zander with very small lures or spinning for chub where pike are present (as I was yesterday). I find the clip on the leader is the only thing that wears. I can't even remember the last time I had to make any new leaders, which I think sums it up. Ti offers incredible longevity, strength and reliability - if you construct the leader properly and therein lies the rub I suppose. I see no reason to use stainless wire for lure fishing whatsoever - utter no brainer IMO.
Agree with Mark,

Been using Titanium traces for the last two seasons, after 40+ years of using several different brands of stainless. Seven strand in 42lb, suits me for bait traces, I only crimp mine, replaced 5 traces in those two seasons.

Won’t be looking back face.
Learning is a gift.

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Flipflopjoe » Sun Jun 20 2021 13:31

Well I can’t say my traces are perfect but I did practise a few times until I got it as neat as I could.
Figure of 8 knot with a little bit of shrink wrap over the snap eyelet and knot.
1 12lb trace and it’s landed a good few jacks, chub up 4lb 12oz, been pulled out of a good few snags and trees, and the ultimate test, it stood up to a 12lb pike yesterday !!!
No kinks, only damage is to the shrink wrap from the pike teeth.
So far, I’m impressed :thumbs:

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Re: Titanium !

Post by Mark Phillips » Sun Jun 20 2021 13:54

Don't confuse traces with leaders - as I still use braided stainless wire for traces - the rigidity of titanium doesn't suit traces for bait fishing IMO and the braided titanium wires I have tried have not been very consistent. Kevin's comments mirror my experience when I have messed around with it to use as a trace. Lure fishing, another story, I wouldn't use anything else.
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Re: Titanium !

Post by Chico 48 PAC » Sun Jun 20 2021 20:19

Mike J wrote:
Richard. wrote:
I really don’t see any point in Ti traces over stainless.
Ti is lighter and has a higher strength yes So in theory it’s going to take more abuse before it kinks but once it kinks it’s totally knackered. The worst thing is Ti hates permanent deformation. Twisting, crimping or knotting are all bad for this metal. Heating can help but that also causes surface oxides which can effect Ti’s strength. It’s why it’s welded in a completely inert atmosphere to obtain a strong joint.
It might be strong but I bet the failure rate is quite high especially from anglers that are new to it and don’t understand it’s limits to being deformed.

Now beyond 40years of using stainless single strand for many branches of angling and agree with you with one exception.

Chico's leaders are crimped and they are not at all bad, in fact they seem to last forever, plus they dont kink as easily as single strand.
Bought half a dozen and still using my first after five years of use.

.
No they are not! I use a crimp but it is not crimped.
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Re: Titanium !

Post by Mike J » Mon Jun 21 2021 06:32

Chico 48 PAC wrote:
Mike J wrote:
Richard. wrote:
I really don’t see any point in Ti traces over stainless.
Ti is lighter and has a higher strength yes So in theory it’s going to take more abuse before it kinks but once it kinks it’s totally knackered. The worst thing is Ti hates permanent deformation. Twisting, crimping or knotting are all bad for this metal. Heating can help but that also causes surface oxides which can effect Ti’s strength. It’s why it’s welded in a completely inert atmosphere to obtain a strong joint.
It might be strong but I bet the failure rate is quite high especially from anglers that are new to it and don’t understand it’s limits to being deformed.

Now beyond 40years of using stainless single strand for many branches of angling and agree with you with one exception.

Chico's leaders are crimped and they are not at all bad, in fact they seem to last forever, plus they dont kink as easily as single strand.
Bought half a dozen and still using my first after five years of use.

.
No they are not! I use a crimp but it is not crimped.

You use a crimp, it secures two parts and stops the connection failing, therefore my post was correct.
It is not for me to reveal exactly what you do, suffice to say I have had one apart.

.
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Re: Titanium !

Post by Chico 48 PAC » Mon Jun 21 2021 11:13

Nope, you said they were crimped and they are not.I use a copper tube. A swimming pool if used to swim in is a swimming pool, if used to fight a fire it is just a water reservoir.

My method has been posted on here so no secret.
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Re: Titanium !

Post by Mike J » Tue Jun 22 2021 12:07

In engineering terms to crimp refers to a mechanical action of compressing a tube or ferrule so it acts as a fastner on stands of a material.

The flattened copper tube over the wires of your leader connection produces a fastener and has therefore been crimped.

:handshake:

.
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Re: Titanium !

Post by Chico 48 PAC » Tue Jun 22 2021 13:55

Nope. Your poor quote states strands, mine are singular. Whatever cack you come up with it still won't be "crimped".
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Re: Titanium !

Post by John Milford » Tue Jun 22 2021 14:10

Pardon me for butting in on this fascinating discussion!

Compression is the decider here I think. If Chico's copper tubes are compressed, they're crimps. If they're not, they're 'sleeves'. :shrug:
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "

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