To sack or not? , that is the question.

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cookiesdaughtersdad
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To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Tue Jan 09 2018 18:43

At the committee meeting of my local club last night it was suggested that the practice of sacking carp should be outlawed for the sake of the fish.
I said I was against this but did say that I would look into it a bit further and so thought I would ask on here for opinions to start with.

Cheers Alan
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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Duncan Holmes » Tue Jan 09 2018 18:48

Depends what they mean by sacking?

I wouldn't dream of using an Old style sack, but happily use a retainer sling for a few minutes while getting camera ready if it's a tricky swim and I can't leave it in the net.

Know of a very large old carp that succumbed in a sack on a water I was fishing, when the angler involved left is sacked up over night in a weedy margin.

I have no doubt that used sensibly they are Ok, but not all anglers act that way.

You might be interested in this thread

http://www.carpforum.co.uk/Shared/Messa ... cID=286304
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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Nige Johns » Tue Jan 09 2018 20:36

I’m with Duncan in this one,short period whilst getting camera ready :thumbs:

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Kev Berry » Tue Jan 09 2018 21:19

Theres a lot of "proper" carpers against sacking. Retaining slings are better but the shallows are the first place to lose the oxygen and theres more than a few woke up to a dead fish in summer when the waters warm.

Learn how to take pictures at night is the way to go --- that might mean laying off the booze and drugs that carpers seem to think are part and parcel of carping

I don't sack anything up, I leave it in the landing net (deep mesh). I usually have everything ready so its just switch the camera on, fetch the fish out onto the mat, unhook and take a pic or 2 with the remote, in the sling, weigh it, then down to the water.

Even better if you with a mate---job done in about a minute.

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Tue Jan 09 2018 21:21

The main reason people use sacks is obviously that they can take daytime photos of fish caught at night, can this be justified against the potencial welfare issues to the fish?
I have certainly seen fish sacked in shallow summer lakes till after breakfast, so they may have been retained for 8 hours of more although this is a river only club.
The main problem I have seen is that at the time of the photo "session", the fish are fully revived and have to be fought again, only this time on the mat.
I also said that if you ban carp sacks then really you'll also have to look at keep nets but the difference being, banning carp sack will be difficult to enforce unless the bailiffs get up very early.

Cheers Alan

ps sacks and retaining slings basically do the same thing for this argument, they retain fish!
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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Creek Chub » Tue Jan 09 2018 22:33

Some clubs and syndicates now ban sacks being brought onto the water, if you are caught with one you are out ! Trouble with retention slings is they are simply substituted for a sack and again some clubs and syndicates are banning them as well. For the last couple of years on my pike syndicate I have used a Wychwood Net Station which assuming you can get it firmly secured in the lake bed will allow you to retain a fish in the landing net for a minute or two whilst you sort out your weighing and camera gear. I also started using it on a couple of my carp waters and it caught on very quickly, sacks and retention slings being banned.
Another useful bit of equipment for night shots is these LED camera lights made by Rhino, turns night into day, although need a bit of fiddling for self takes.

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Nobby C » Tue Jan 09 2018 22:58

It's only ego that stops some from just taking a mat shot. Do you really need to prove you caught something?

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Mike J » Wed Jan 10 2018 09:17

Nobby C wrote:
It's only ego that stops some from just taking a mat shot. Do you really need to prove you caught something?



Exactly :thumbs:

You only have to look on here to see how egotistical some anglers are.

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Duncan Holmes » Wed Jan 10 2018 13:22

Nobby C wrote:
It's only ego that stops some from just taking a mat shot. Do you really need to prove you caught something?
Why take a photo of a fish laying on a mat? doesn't do the fish anywhere near the justice of a held trophy shot, nothing to do with ego for me I just think it makes a much better picture.

Its pretty easy to self take a night, you don't even need a lot of kit these days.
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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Nobby C » Wed Jan 10 2018 14:17

We're not all bronzed Adonis' though I guess it sounded a bit contentious, must use smilies more.

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by davelumb » Wed Jan 10 2018 19:30

Why take a photo of a fish laying on a mat? doesn't do the fish anywhere near the justice of a held trophy shot,
If you want a record shot, maybe for identification/comparison purposes, a picture of a fish on the mat does the job and takes less time than a trophy shot.

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Duncan Holmes » Wed Jan 10 2018 19:45

davelumb wrote:
Why take a photo of a fish laying on a mat? doesn't do the fish anywhere near the justice of a held trophy shot,
If you want a record shot, maybe for identification/comparison purposes, a picture of a fish on the mat does the job and takes less time than a trophy shot.
agree, I take plenty on fin photos on the mat for that reason, but wasn't really the context of Nobby's post.
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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by davelumb » Wed Jan 10 2018 19:54

Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Why take a photo of a fish laying on a mat? doesn't do the fish anywhere near the justice of a held trophy shot,
If you want a record shot, maybe for identification/comparison purposes, a picture of a fish on the mat does the job and takes less time than a trophy shot.
agree, I take plenty on fin photos on the mat for that reason, but wasn't really the context of Nobby's post.
But Nobby's right. Trophy shots are for the ego, even if nobody else but the angler looks at them. If they weren't we'd take trophy shots of every fish we catch, not just the bigger ones. IMO

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Duncan Holmes » Wed Jan 10 2018 20:18

davelumb wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Why take a photo of a fish laying on a mat? doesn't do the fish anywhere near the justice of a held trophy shot,
If you want a record shot, maybe for identification/comparison purposes, a picture of a fish on the mat does the job and takes less time than a trophy shot.
agree, I take plenty on fin photos on the mat for that reason, but wasn't really the context of Nobby's post.
But Nobby's right. Trophy shots are for the ego, even if nobody else but the angler looks at them. If they weren't we'd take trophy shots of every fish we catch, not just the bigger ones. IMO
ummm, interesting point....

I guess by that rational any measure of success is driven by ego, but of course the context and use of the word "ego" can mean very different things. :wink:
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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by davelumb » Wed Jan 10 2018 21:10

Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Why take a photo of a fish laying on a mat? doesn't do the fish anywhere near the justice of a held trophy shot,
If you want a record shot, maybe for identification/comparison purposes, a picture of a fish on the mat does the job and takes less time than a trophy shot.
agree, I take plenty on fin photos on the mat for that reason, but wasn't really the context of Nobby's post.
But Nobby's right. Trophy shots are for the ego, even if nobody else but the angler looks at them. If they weren't we'd take trophy shots of every fish we catch, not just the bigger ones. IMO
ummm, interesting point....

I guess by that rational any measure of success is driven by ego, but of course the context and use of the word "ego" can mean very different things. :wink:
I suppose in the jargon of the times, one could say trophy shots are good for our 'self esteem'. :grin:

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Nobby C » Wed Jan 10 2018 22:07

Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Why take a photo of a fish laying on a mat? doesn't do the fish anywhere near the justice of a held trophy shot,
If you want a record shot, maybe for identification/comparison purposes, a picture of a fish on the mat does the job and takes less time than a trophy shot.
agree, I take plenty on fin photos on the mat for that reason, but wasn't really the context of Nobby's post.
Do I have to explain the context of my posts or would you rather interpret them to your own standards? I was just saying,the picture is of the fish not the angler right?

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Wed Jan 10 2018 22:28

Nobby C wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Why take a photo of a fish laying on a mat? doesn't do the fish anywhere near the justice of a held trophy shot,
If you want a record shot, maybe for identification/comparison purposes, a picture of a fish on the mat does the job and takes less time than a trophy shot.
agree, I take plenty on fin photos on the mat for that reason, but wasn't really the context of Nobby's post.
Do I have to explain the context of my posts or would you rather interpret them to your own standards? I was just saying,the picture is of the fish not the angler right?
Ah but who caught it, where were you, what time of year etc, a piccy tells a tail! catch one at night, take a photo at night.
We all have egoes, they are the gap between your true self and the person you want to be and the world to see.
If the fish you catch fall short of what your ego needs, a bullshiter is born.

Cheers Alan
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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Nobby C » Wed Jan 10 2018 22:59

:handshake: If I catch I consider it a good thing.

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Duncan Holmes » Wed Jan 10 2018 23:01

Nobby C wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Why take a photo of a fish laying on a mat? doesn't do the fish anywhere near the justice of a held trophy shot,
If you want a record shot, maybe for identification/comparison purposes, a picture of a fish on the mat does the job and takes less time than a trophy shot.
agree, I take plenty on fin photos on the mat for that reason, but wasn't really the context of Nobby's post.
Do I have to explain the context of my posts or would you rather interpret them to your own standards? I was just saying,the picture is of the fish not the angler right?
No explanation needed, we all interpret things in our own way all the time. It's just a discussion :handshake:
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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Nobby C » Wed Jan 10 2018 23:14

:thumbs:

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by daveesox » Thu Feb 08 2018 15:59

Just retain them in the landing net for a short time

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Andrew Croft » Thu Feb 08 2018 17:01

Absolutely no need for sacking pike for hours until its day time. Imo its absolutely selfish. Id even argue against doing it for a little while to get things ready but im ok with that tbf, it should already be ready though.
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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Nobby C » Thu Feb 08 2018 17:57

No,let them the fook go. Bloody egos.

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by Kev Berry » Thu Feb 08 2018 20:42

Andrew Croft wrote:
Absolutely no need for sacking pike for hours until its day time. Imo its absolutely selfish. Id even argue against doing it for a little while to get things ready but im ok with that tbf, it should already be ready though.
my camera isn't ready when its p*****g down, its in the bag. But even if you have to get everything ready there is no need to sack it, just leave it in the net with the v block over a rod rest.
If its night time---tough, if you cant get a picture put it back

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Re: To sack or not? , that is the question.

Post by piker60 » Mon Mar 12 2018 23:38

Nothing wrong with using a keep sack for that special fish in the winter. My major concern would be that the angler has not completely wetted the sack before placing the fit inside (slime removal). I don't own a keepnet, but own a high quality keep sack, and consider that this in certain circumstances, a better option than retaining in a landing net. Nothing wrong at all in aspiring to good quality photographs as long as fish welfare is not compromised.
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