Small method feeders - a few questions

[Daniel]

I use the 2500 size aero feeder on my mini and its a perfect combination for me. It has a wider spool than other 2500 shimmies.

[Marty]

As you know i used to service/repair reels, and whilst there are not many that are bad I am a great lover of the Spro Red Arc series.

Lovely smooth drag with plenty of torque, and the 4000 balances lovely on a 10ft method feeder rod.
Quite hard to find here in the UK but ive bought 4 now from the link below - at the price unbeatable and delivery was within a week.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spro-Red-Arc- ... 3f1c92fd34

[Patrick Bateman]

I use the 2500 size aero feeder on my mini and its a perfect combination for me. It has a wider spool than other 2500 shimmies.

Is that the reel I pictured Dan? I can only find the 4000 posted earlier.

[Daniel]

I use the 2500 size aero feeder on my mini and its a perfect combination for me. It has a wider spool than other 2500 shimmies.

Is that the reel I pictured Dan? I can only find the 4000 posted earlier.

The 4000 is a big reel, much more suited to a 12' rod.

I use this.
http://www.futurefishing.co.uk/shimano- ... 2593-p.asp

[Patrick Bateman]

I use the 2500 size aero feeder on my mini and its a perfect combination for me. It has a wider spool than other 2500 shimmies.

Is that the reel I pictured Dan? I can only find the 4000 posted earlier.

The 4000 is a big reel, much more suited to a 12' rod.

I use this.
http://www.futurefishing.co.uk/shimano- ... 2593-p.asp

Thanks Dan.

[Patrick Bateman]

As you know i used to service/repair reels, and whilst there are not many that are bad I am a great lover of the Spro Red Arc series.

Lovely smooth drag with plenty of torque, and the 4000 balances lovely on a 10ft method feeder rod.
Quite hard to find here in the UK but ive bought 4 now from the link below - at the price unbeatable and delivery was within a week.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spro-Red-Arc- ... 3f1c92fd34

This may well be a fantastic VFM reel Marty, but by God it's fugly!

[Marty]

As you know i used to service/repair reels, and whilst there are not many that are bad I am a great lover of the Spro Red Arc series.

Lovely smooth drag with plenty of torque, and the 4000 balances lovely on a 10ft method feeder rod.
Quite hard to find here in the UK but ive bought 4 now from the link below - at the price unbeatable and delivery was within a week.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spro-Red-Arc- ... 3f1c92fd34

This may well be a fantastic VFM reel Marty, but by God it's fugly!

agreed, its not a looker !

(but its best small feeder reel bar none)

[Patrick Bateman]

As you know i used to service/repair reels, and whilst there are not many that are bad I am a great lover of the Spro Red Arc series.

Lovely smooth drag with plenty of torque, and the 4000 balances lovely on a 10ft method feeder rod.
Quite hard to find here in the UK but ive bought 4 now from the link below - at the price unbeatable and delivery was within a week.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spro-Red-Arc- ... 3f1c92fd34

This may well be a fantastic VFM reel Marty, but by God it's fugly!

agreed, its not a looker !

(but its best small feeder reel bar none)

>>>>>> tart of the highest order!!

[Patrick Bateman]

I forgot to add that after the chat about elasticated feeders and their dangers earlier in the thread, I found these at the local shop. These are in line and allow the feeder to detach if you get a break off (apparently the only elasticated method feeders so to do). They're perhaps a touch heavy for the Mini Plus (Dan, care chime in here?) so they may have to wait for me to crack out the 12ft rod again, but I'll be interested to see the difference between the standard fixed and elasticated versions. (I've decided not to use the two Preston elasticated versions after what you guys have said about them). I must admit, I'm quite taken by the Guru range, it all appears to be very well thought out to me. Thoughts on these?

[Gavin P]

From what I have seen of the Guru range it seems good stuff, if I am not mistaken it was the brain childed of steve ringer and alex bones at the beginning I just keep with my preston ones as I am used to them and how they cast plus I have plenty of them and the moulds, though if I was in your position and just starting out I would get a couple of each feeder and see what one I got on best with as everyone has their own wee preferences over how they do stuff

[Daniel]

I forgot to add that after the chat about elasticated feeders and their dangers earlier in the thread, I found these at the local shop. These are in line and allow the feeder to detach if you get a break off (apparently the only elasticated method feeders so to do). They're perhaps a touch heavy for the Mini Plus (Dan, care chime in here?) so they may have to wait for me to crack out the 12ft rod again, but I'll be interested to see the difference between the standard fixed and elasticated versions. (I've decided not to use the two Preston elasticated versions after what you guys have said about them). I must admit, I'm quite taken by the Guru range, it all appears to be very well thought out to me. Thoughts on these?

They'll be on the heavy side once loaded with groundbait, the heaviest I've used with my mini is 35g unloaded as I've never found a need to go heavier.

[Patrick Bateman]

From what I have seen of the Guru range it seems good stuff, if I am not mistaken it was the brain childed of steve ringer and alex bones at the beginning I just keep with my preston ones as I am used to them and how they cast plus I have plenty of them and the moulds, though if I was in your position and just starting out I would get a couple of each feeder and see what one I got on best with as everyone has their own wee preferences over how they do stuff

They actually fit in the larger of the two Drennan moulds nicely, so no need for another mould!

[Patrick Bateman]

They'll be on the heavy side once loaded with groundbait, the heaviest I've used with my mini is 35g unloaded as I've never found a need to go heavier.

Yeah, the shop was out of the smaller versions. I've used 15g, 25 & 35g Drennan versions so far - must admit I like the heavier models as you can be pretty sure you're not dragging the thing back and you can also get a really nice bend in the tip to accentuate the drop backs. Appreciate your ongoing advice here Dan.

[Gavin P]

From what I have seen of the Guru range it seems good stuff, if I am not mistaken it was the brain childed of steve ringer and alex bones at the beginning I just keep with my preston ones as I am used to them and how they cast plus I have plenty of them and the moulds, though if I was in your position and just starting out I would get a couple of each feeder and see what one I got on best with as everyone has their own wee preferences over how they do stuff

They actually fit in the larger of the two Drennan moulds nicely, so no need for another mould!

Ahhh I did not know that

(everydays a learning day face)

[Patrick Bateman]

I decided to go back to the first venue I tried last week with the restored Mini Plus, if only to see what the difference would be between a 10 foot and 12 foot rod at the same water. Getting there early I even managed to nab the same swim to make the comparison even clearer. Here's the swim:

Last week I was (trying!) to fish in the gap between the left hand set of pads and the main centre set of pads and the water in front of it. It's a biggish area and I was still occasionally missing it. This time I decided to fish in between the centre set of pads and the island.
As I was setting up, the gosling that the resident pair of Canada geese have paid me a visit - he's at least doubled in size in the last week!

Immediately it was clear that casting was much easier. After a dozen or so casts I unclipped the line and fished the rest of the day without it - confidence is beginning to build in my casting accuracy - I still have a way to go, but it was a big improvement on last week. It took a little longer this time for the first bites to appear - perhaps 30 minutes. The first fish in the net was the obligatory bream. Bait was a banded 6mm hard trout pellet on a size 14.

I'd had a complete clear up of my baits and was surprised how many I had I could press into service. Apart from the Band 'ums, Drennan boilies and the coarse pellets, all of these had been lurking in my kit, unloved and unused - not anymore!

I must admit that I'm a bit of a neat freak, so I was pleased with how my side tray was looking! (I do like the Guru rig holder - its a well designed piece of kit).
Having started with a size 14 hook with a bait banded pellet, the bites started to become finicky after the first few bream. I changed baits to a Hinders dumbbell and caught another three bream in three casts. I repeated the trick with four quick fish on the Band 'ums. The swim slowed again so I changed to a boilie on a hair. I noticed throughout the day that a change bait often bought instant results - so much so that if I was buggering about after the first cast with a new hook bait it invariably meant I missed a huge wraparound! I ended the day with a number of different baits on different hooklengths - very matchman of me!! The boilies weren't what the fish wanted however, so I went back to the hard pellets.
I then had a take that virtually took the rod off the rests on a Hinders dumbbell. This was no bream! It may have only been c. 2lb, but old teddy bear eyes (complete with damaged gill plate) had paid me a visit!

As normal it went very quiet between noon and 2.30pm. I switched down to a 16 and the bream immediately started to come again - a useful lesson. (I tend to start as big as I think I can get way with an work down - would it just be better to start smaller? ) Two guys who were also fishing the water came over and bemoaned that they'd caught bugger all and were going home. They didn't believe me when I told them about the fish I'd had. Still, they arrived at 9 and left at 3 - the slowest time for the water according to all I've spoken to about it.
Later in the afternoon, I put the feeder right under the edge of the island and soon found out that wasn't the greatest idea!

(There's a greedy mallard under there scoffing all the bait!)
The day was drawing to a close and the gosling was back again, this time with his parents and they were trying to shoo me off the water! Lovely seeing them literally at arms length (although I resisted the urge to feed them for fear I'd never get rid of them!!

The last cast bought the biggest bream of the day - perhaps 4lb, then it was off home in time to watch the footy!

Tomorrow's plan is to hit a water stuffed with carp - I'm hoping to do some real damage (to the fish, not my rod! ) It'll be good to see how the Mini Plus handles lots and lots of carp (he hopes!...)

[Daniel]

Great stuff mate.
Re starting big. I do the same thing, I don't go small unless I have to.

[Marty]

Great stuff mate.
Re starting big. I do the same thing, I don't go small unless I have to.

ditto, although with baits under 10mm i will always start with a strong wide gape 16 rather than a standard 14.

I took my 2 nephews yesterday for a couple of hours, both of whom have never fished before. Suffice to say the youngest one caught the biggest fish of the day with a nice 12lb mirror on his first cast! After 2 hours and 70lb+ of carp and bream they'd had enough and spent the last hour running around/fighting/playing on their phones etc so home we came.... whats wrong with kids these days!

[Andrew]

congratulations on keeping them interested for 2 hours! Marty.

mines lasted about half an hour before the rod was being used as an imaginary sniper rifle older he's getting though the more he will stay. im considering banning the phone from being used unless its a call. shoulda seen state of him last time he couldnt get an internet connection.

[Patrick Bateman]

A bit of a disaster today. I arrived at 7am to find all the swims on the small carp water filled. The cats in there are now nearly 6olb so it's getting some serious attention - despite it being an acre or so at best. Undeterred, there's a small pond above it on the book too, so I investigated. This is what I found:


That's not weed in the water - it's branches that have broken off from the surrounding trees. Still there were only three swims and surely I would have the place to myself...
First four casts saw four small carp in the net in no time - the bites were hardly subtle, but the fish weren't big...


I was told there were loads of fish in here though, so despite the challenge of the branches and a very limited space to fish in, I persevered. About ten minutes after the fourth carp, I noticed the feeder getting torn apart each cast. Sadly, these were responsible, not the carp:

Rudd - literally thousands of them. I couldn't get away from them and they even started to take the band 'ums on a 16!
Long story short I aborted the session after a few hours when the other two swims were filled by a pair of old boys who should know better - shouting across the pond, throwing stones at the ducks, etc. Chatting to the bailiff in the car park it also became apparent that the top pond had suffered a fish theft only last week and in addition, more than 6000 rudd had been transferred to it from other club waters four days ago! I should have changed venue when I saw the bigger water was full. Ah well, always next time. Taking tomorrow off and assessing my options for later in the week...

[Patrick Bateman]

Another go today at the venue where I broke the Mini Plus last week - this time from the opposite side of the lake. My swim last week is the one just to the left of the monk in the lilies. I chose the other side today because there are fewer lilies and less chance of me getting stuffed by fish in them.
The swim:


This time I fished to the end of the island and to cut a long story short, I caught well first thing and well in the evening, but with not a lot in the middle of the day bar half a dozen half pound roach. Bait they wanted was 6mm pellet all day on a 16. I ended up with 8 carp and lost another three - two due to me being half asleep and the other to a hooklink break late in the day (my fault for not checking it. ) All commons, including a couple of ghosties. Biggest fish 8 and a half. A fun day! Here are a few.


The best ghostie:

Having now watched a few videos on Youtube re the method, one thing that kept popping up was fish coming right into the bank at the end of the day. Sure enough, once I'd dropped my 1 pint or so of left over groundbait in the margins as I was packing up, this happened not two minutes later:

At one point, there were 8 fish in the swim, with the largest being close to 20lb. A plan is being hatched for my next trip...

[Daniel]

Chuck a big handful or two of feed in the margin a couple of hours before you're thinking of packing up and just lower your method feeder in when you see signs of fish moving over the feed, its often the way to catch the biggest fish in the lake.

[Patrick Bateman]

Chuck a big handful or two of feed in the margin a couple of hours before you're thinking of packing up and just lower your method feeder in when you see signs of fish moving over the feed, its often the way to catch the biggest fish in the lake.

I did try that but spooked the fish when they brushed the line as I was dropping it in. I'm toying between actually putting the feeder in before I drop in the groundbait, or setting up a stoutish float rig on a little 9ft Duellist I've got. Either way, I'm looking forward to meeting them again!!

[Andrew]

Id go for a float personally as its exciting in the margins but you could try a back lead ?

[Daniel]

Chuck a big handful or two of feed in the margin a couple of hours before you're thinking of packing up and just lower your method feeder in when you see signs of fish moving over the feed, its often the way to catch the biggest fish in the lake.

I did try that but spooked the fish when they brushed the line as I was dropping it in. I'm toying between actually putting the feeder in before I drop in the groundbait, or setting up a stoutish float rig on a little 9ft Duellist I've got. Either way, I'm looking forward to meeting them again!!

Drop it a bit short of your feed area, they'll find it quick enough.
You'll be buying a margin pole before you know it because it is by far and away the best way to fish close in. A dumpy little self cocking pole float on a bit of 0.20 or 0.22 shimano antares line depending on the size of fish expected, a strong size 12 hook and a flat piece of luncheon meat about 25-35mm square and 3-5mm thick and away you go. The odd bait shape works brilliantly because the large flat shape makes it look a big gob full to a greedy carp but because its thin it doesn't weigh much so lifts off the deck quickly and easily when the carp sucks it up so you get really good hook holds well inside the carps mouth.

[Patrick Bateman]

Chuck a big handful or two of feed in the margin a couple of hours before you're thinking of packing up and just lower your method feeder in when you see signs of fish moving over the feed, its often the way to catch the biggest fish in the lake.

I did try that but spooked the fish when they brushed the line as I was dropping it in. I'm toying between actually putting the feeder in before I drop in the groundbait, or setting up a stoutish float rig on a little 9ft Duellist I've got. Either way, I'm looking forward to meeting them again!!

Drop it a bit short of your feed area, they'll find it quick enough.
You'll be buying a margin pole before you know it because it is by far and away the best way to fish close in. A dumpy little self cocking pole float on a bit of 0.20 or 0.22 shimano antares line depending on the size of fish expected, a strong size 12 hook and a flat piece of luncheon meat about 25-35mm square and 3-5mm thick and away you go. The odd bait shape works brilliantly because the large flat shape makes it look a big gob full to a greedy carp but because its thin it doesn't weigh much so lifts off the deck quickly and easily when the carp sucks it up so you get really good hook holds well inside the carps mouth.

I was literally sitting right where I took that picture - I'd need a 6" pole! (fnarr, fnarr... ) Seriously though, the distance is no more than a foot from my chair - this is no swim down the side of my swim - it is my swim - a bit short of it and the bait's on the bank!! Oddly, I've fished meat both times I've been here on the float and not a touch - and I've heard the same from other anglers. Still, it should be all academic what goes onto the hook when the fish are tearing it up like that! The float appeals, now I have to sort out a dibber or tiny waggler...

[Daniel]

Chuck a big handful or two of feed in the margin a couple of hours before you're thinking of packing up and just lower your method feeder in when you see signs of fish moving over the feed, its often the way to catch the biggest fish in the lake.

I did try that but spooked the fish when they brushed the line as I was dropping it in. I'm toying between actually putting the feeder in before I drop in the groundbait, or setting up a stoutish float rig on a little 9ft Duellist I've got. Either way, I'm looking forward to meeting them again!!

Drop it a bit short of your feed area, they'll find it quick enough.
You'll be buying a margin pole before you know it because it is by far and away the best way to fish close in. A dumpy little self cocking pole float on a bit of 0.20 or 0.22 shimano antares line depending on the size of fish expected, a strong size 12 hook and a flat piece of luncheon meat about 25-35mm square and 3-5mm thick and away you go. The odd bait shape works brilliantly because the large flat shape makes it look a big gob full to a greedy carp but because its thin it doesn't weigh much so lifts off the deck quickly and easily when the carp sucks it up so you get really good hook holds well inside the carps mouth.

I was literally sitting right where I took that picture - I'd need a 6" pole! (fnarr, fnarr... ) Seriously though, the distance is no more than a foot from my chair - this is no swim down the side of my swim - it is my swim - a bit short of it and the bait's on the bank!! Oddly, I've fished meat both times I've been here on the float and not a touch - and I've heard the same from other anglers. Still, it should be all academic what goes onto the hook when the fish are tearing it up like that! The float appeals, now I have to sort out a dibber or tiny waggler...

My favourite margin float for big baits. It has a long buoyant bristle that won't get dragged under every time a fin brushes the line.
http://www.nathansofderby.com/coarsemat ... rpa-margin

Whatever you choose you'll soon find a short self cocking pole float with a long bristle is the best option even fished on a float rod. A rod can be even better than a pole if the venue holds some real zoo creatures as you can let it run which you can't do so much with a pole.

[Patrick Bateman]

My favourite margin float for big baits. It has a long buoyant bristle that won't get dragged under every time a fin brushes the line.
http://www.nathansofderby.com/coarsemat ... rpa-margin

Whatever you choose you'll soon find a short self cocking pole float with a long bristle is the best option even fished on a float rod. A rod can be even better than a pole if the venue holds some real zoo creatures as you can let it run which you can't do so much with a pole.

OK, I'm now getting somewhat out of my comfort zone!!

If I go for the floats mentioned above Dan and use dendras as bait on a size 12 or 14, do I want the 4x10 or 4x12 floats? (Also and slightly confusingly) it appears the 4x12 float needs more weight - does the 10 or 12 not refer to the size of shot used to c*ck the float? So as well as the floats, I'm looking at getting some Stotz to make it simpler to put the small size shot on the line, one of those Preston stotz applicator tools, and some Preston pole float silicone. Does that lot sound right to you? An alternative would appear to be the new Drennan in-line dibbers perhaps? http://www.nathansofderby.com/latest-ad ... al-dibbers

There are some lumps in the water judging by what I saw on Wednesday, so a running line set up is what I'll be looking to use. What would you suggest for hook length strength/diameter with an 0.22 mainline as you've recommended?

[Patrick Bateman]

Id go for a float personally as its exciting in the margins but you could try a back lead ?

I think the float is my preferred method. I'd need to be sitting so far back on the method that I'd be on the path around the lake!

[Daniel]

My favourite margin float for big baits. It has a long buoyant bristle that won't get dragged under every time a fin brushes the line.
http://www.nathansofderby.com/coarsemat ... rpa-margin

Whatever you choose you'll soon find a short self cocking pole float with a long bristle is the best option even fished on a float rod. A rod can be even better than a pole if the venue holds some real zoo creatures as you can let it run which you can't do so much with a pole.

OK, I'm now getting somewhat out of my comfort zone!!

If I go for the floats mentioned above Dan and use dendras as bait on a size 12 or 14, do I want the 4x10 or 4x12 floats? (Also and slightly confusingly) it appears the 4x12 float needs more weight - does the 10 or 12 not refer to the size of shot used to c*ck the float? So as well as the floats, I'm looking at getting some Stotz to make it simpler to put the small size shot on the line, one of those Preston stotz applicator tools, and some Preston pole float silicone. Does that lot sound right to you? An alternative would appear to be the new Drennan in-line dibbers perhaps? http://www.nathansofderby.com/latest-ad ... al-dibbers

There are some lumps in the water judging by what I saw on Wednesday, so a running line set up is what I'll be looking to use. What would you suggest for hook length strength/diameter with an 0.22 mainline as you've recommended?

If using the particular floats I recommended no shot are needed as they are self cocking and perfect for water less than 3' deep fishing big baits. The numbers on these floats are telling you the size of the float should you want to swap to a float of the same size that does need shot. Just attach the float to your line with float rubbers and tie on a size 12 direct to the mainline which doesn't need to be 0.22 on a running line, you could fish with 0.19 just fine because you can let them run, you would use the heavier line for pole fishing though.. Bagging up in the margins is no place for weak links so don't use a hook length, the fish can't dive down so WILL go nuts and charge away from you as hard and fast as they can.

Any decent tackle shop should have suitable pole floats. Use short self cockers in water 3' or less and floats needing shot if its deeper. As for a shotting pattern a simple bulk of stots 6-8" from the hook is all you need.

4x10 on a pole float doesn't mean 4 number 10 shot. Pole floats were, and still are, labelled with the weight required if you were using styl weights, ridiculous really as very few people use them because many sizes of styl are illegal in the UK!

This is a chart I use to convert the marked weight.

TIP: Try the float with one less shot than recommended as that may be spot on and its a bugger removing tiny stot weights even with the right tool!

3x10 = 0.10g (2 x No10 shot)
4x10 = 0.15g (3 x No9 shot)
4x12 = 0.2g (5x No10 shot)
4x14 = 0.4g (6 x No8 shot)
4x16 = 0.5g (8x No8 shot)
4x18 = 0.75g (3 x No3 shot)
4x20 = 1g (4 x No3 shot)
5x20 = 1.25g (5 x No3 shot)
6x20 = 1.5g (6 x No3 shot).

[Andrew]

Id go for a float personally as its exciting in the margins but you could try a back lead ?

I think the float is my preferred method. I'd need to be sitting so far back on the method that I'd be on the path around the lake!

most normal people would go further along the bank