Centrepin reels

[markd]

Thinking of giving one a go, always liked the idea of them. But would i be best to get a larger or smaller diameter? And line guard or no line guard?

Would just be using it on a 13ft float rod for basic stick float/roach type stuff.

Cheers,
Mark

[Kev Berry]

feck the line guards off, have the line coming off the top of the reel, and get a 4"--41/2" centrepin, and get one with a decent easy to flick on drag
use 5lb reel line, only put about 50yds of line on so it doesn't bed in.

one of my centrepins is a TFG one, quite well made and only about 50 quid on the fleabay, I prefer a wide drum pin .
Any of the okuma centrepins are good, again you can pick up a bargain on ebay with used ones.

if you like it then move up to a better class pin but be prepared to get the wallet out (just bought a Youngs Rapidex 2 got it cheap at £185)

[Mike J]

Hi Mark,
I use a centrepin for trotting, similar set-up as you, infact I have never used any other design for trotting except once, an ABU 506 for 1/2day.
The essential is that the reel is free running, the lighter the float the freer it must run.
Your first question to answer is bearing or true 'pin, a bearing reel runs on roller bearings and can be used vertical or flat, a centrepin runs on the very tip of the centre spindle and is fished flat ie; with the back plate facing the ground.
To identify a centrepin look at the centre boss of the handle side, it will have a tiny slot head screw in the very middle, this is the screw the spool runs on, and is used to adjust the correct 'play' of the spool.

Shop test - set-up your float rig on 10ft of line, wind it on the reel of choice, when you find a reel that will unwind with the weight of the tackle, that is the reel to buy.

I fish fast flowing rivers where most anglers fish the 'pin, the best I have seen the best Out of the Box are the Okuma models, these are equal to the vintage handmade Dave Swallow reels in performance but 1/3 of the price.
The best true centrepin for a newbie are the old Alcocks Aerial Match reels or the Fred Crouch Aerials that were made on the old Allcocks tooling.

Kev advises line off the top of the reel, this can help eliminate tangles if your casting is poor or in strong winds and line is recovered by winding backwards.
I fish my line off the bottom, can cast more than 30yards without tangling and use heavier tackle in strong winds.
No 'pin angler uses a line guard.

Whatever you choose, comeback and let us know.

[Kev Berry]

Hi Mark,
I use a centrepin for trotting, similar set-up as you, infact I have never used any other design for trotting except once, an ABU 506 for 1/2day.
The essential is that the reel is free running, the lighter the float the freer it must run.
Your first question to answer is bearing or true 'pin, a bearing reel runs on roller bearings and can be used vertical or flat, a centrepin runs on the very tip of the centre spindle and is fished flat ie; with the back plate facing the ground.
To identify a centrepin look at the centre boss of the handle side, it will have a tiny slot head screw in the very middle, this is the screw the spool runs on, and is used to adjust the correct 'play' of the spool.

Shop test - set-up your float rig on 10ft of line, wind it on the reel of choice, when you find a reel that will unwind with the weight of the tackle, that is the reel to buy.

I fish fast flowing rivers where most anglers fish the 'pin, the best I have seen the best Out of the Box are the Okuma models, these are equal to the vintage handmade Dave Swallow reels in performance but 1/3 of the price.
The best true centrepin for a newbie are the old Alcocks Aerial Match reels or the Fred Crouch Aerials that were made on the old Allcocks tooling.

Kev advises line off the top of the reel, this can help eliminate tangles if your casting is poor or in strong winds and line is recovered by winding backwards.
I fish my line off the bottom, can cast more than 30yards without tangling and use heavier tackle in strong winds.
No 'pin angler uses a line guard.

Whatever you choose, comeback and let us know.

I disagree with you saying the true pins need to be used with the back to the ground Mike and that they should run on the spool float adjustment screw, all centrepins tend to be used at an angle but not horizontal when trotting
Alcocks aerials are fetching an inflated price, much better to start off with a cheap CNC made ball bearing reel like the one I suggested, they work just as good as the expensive reels and are machined very well.
We had a Wallace casting tuition day a few weeks back on one of our lakes. The "expert" told everyone that you couldn't Wallace cast with the line from the top of the reel. This drew a few guffaws from those who had come to watch the antics of the newbie centre pinners. (we run a centre pin only match and there are some real 'pin experts amongst those who enter) One of the old lads took the rod off him, turned the reel round so the line was the right way off the top, effortlessly flicked the small bomb they were using as a weight out about 25yds,then handed the rod back for him to wind back in
All the purists have the line off the top as well Mike, its the noddies that have it off the bottom

[Mike J]

Kev,
Can you answer this question.
Allcocks had their factory in the English Midlands, they were engineers and made only what anglers wanted - Yes?
Allcocks ethos led to the design and production of the Match Aerial - Yes?
The Allcocks Match Aerial was designed to wind forward when recovering line onto the bottom of the spool - Yes?
Did Allcocks produce a reel to recover line to the top of the spool when turned the natural way ie; forwards? - No
Not a decision of a company catering for the demands of millions of river anglers, a little difficult to comprehend - Yes?

The reason they didnt produce such a reel was because your purist market was (and remains) so small it would be a complete waste of money.
In reality your 'purist' market is so tiny not even makers of todays custom handmade £1k reels do not make a single 'purists' reel.



When you do not to cast a shadow I will wear a noddie hat.

[FN19]

I got a cheap marco cortesi centre pin about 8 years ago used it for the grayling for a couple of seasons put it back in it`s box took it back out last year when I got back into trout fishing and it still runs as smooth as the day I got it, I like to fish long runs/pools with it so ive got about 120/150yrds of 5lb mono running of the top on it

[Kev Berry]

Kev,
Can you answer this question.
Allcocks had their factory in the English Midlands, they were engineers and made only what anglers wanted - Yes?
Allcocks ethos led to the design and production of the Match Aerial - Yes?
The Allcocks Match Aerial was designed to wind forward when recovering line onto the bottom of the spool - Yes?
Did Allcocks produce a reel to recover line to the top of the spool when turned the natural way ie; forwards? - No
Not a decision of a company catering for the demands of millions of river anglers, a little difficult to comprehend - Yes?

The reason they didnt produce such a reel was because your purist market was (and remains) so small it would be a complete waste of money.
In reality your 'purist' market is so tiny not even makers of todays custom handmade £1k reels do not make a single 'purists' reel.



When you do not to cast a shadow I will wear a noddie hat.

no Mike they made a reel that anglers bought with no choice of where the line came off and that is still the case with many centrepins today, luckily you only have to junk the useless line guards to make it so you can fish with it properly.
like I said we have a lot of centre pin users in our piscatorial society---and I think most of them fish off the top, where is your evidence to say those fishing off the top is just a tiny market?
anyone who learns how to fish off the top doesn't go back to fishing off the bottom y'know

the noddie remark was said tongue in cheek Mike , hence the

[Malc Green]

Line off the top of the reel keeps it all straight to the first eye.Allows casting by pulling down coils of line. Also when you bat the reel from the bottom you don't get impeded by the line.
I've seen many an angler using the pin wrongly often chuckle at there antics.

[Alex Fox]

I have an oldish pin that i have had for years , and rarely use it , but when i have , the line has been from the bottom ... its never even crossed my mind that anglers ever use it running from the top , but am sure there wouldn't be much in it , other than just personal preference ... but interesting

[markd]

Cheers for all the replies and info everyone, interesting and much appreciated

[Daniel]

The Marco cortesi pin is fine, it gets better the more you use it.
The okuma Sheffield is a cracker, well worth it's money.

I have tried and tried to fish with the line off the top of the reel but I hate it, winding backwards goes against all my instincts and I find myself thinking about it before I wind in rather than just doing it.
My advice is to try both styles and see what you prefer, everyone has an opinion but what they think is irrelevant as you're the one using it!

[Chris Hammond]

Just my personal opinion but I don't think the minor advantage of a pin for trotting is worth the handicaps they present to a novice. I've got the Marco thingy and it is a superb piece of engineering for the cost but, like all centrepins, a pain in the arriss to fish with. I use it occasionally because for sitting in a boat and trotting down the stream they are aesthetically pleasing and have a nostalgic appoeal but (imho) expedient they aint!

Without perfecting the Wallis you are hampered with distance casting, they're a complete pain for tangling around the drum, especially in windy conditions and the idea that you get a 'better feel' when playing a fish is complete cobblers.

Centrepins for me are an unnecessary hindrance. There's nothing you can do with a pin that you cant do with a decent FS and plenty you can't do with them. Unless you fancy the idea as a novelty or throw back to the past wouldn't give them a second thought.

I've also used two or three Aerials borrowed from friends down the years and they are utter garbage! If you do decide on buying one don't be fooled by the romance put up by elderly anglers and steer well clear of those over priced and out dated money pits from Allcocks.

Pins to me are like cane rods. They have a utilitarian charm but are nothing but a handicap for nine out of ten fishing situations.

[Kev Berry]

Just my personal opinion but I don't think the minor advantage of a pin for trotting is worth the handicaps they present to a novice. I've got the Marco thingy and it is a superb piece of engineering for the cost but, like all centrepins, a pain in the arriss to fish with. I use it occasionally because for sitting in a boat and trotting down the stream they are aesthetically pleasing and have a nostalgic appoeal but (imho) expedient they aint!

Without perfecting the Wallis you are hampered with distance casting, they're a complete pain for tangling around the drum, especially in windy conditions and the idea that you get a 'better feel' when playing a fish is complete cobblers.

Centrepins for me are an unnecessary hindrance. There's nothing you can do with a pin that you cant do with a decent FS and plenty you can't do with them. Unless you fancy the idea as a novelty or throw back to the past wouldn't give them a second thought.

I've also used two or three Aerials borrowed from friends down the years and they are utter garbage! If you do decide on buying one don't be fooled by the romance put up by elderly anglers and steer well clear of those over priced and out dated money pits from Allcocks.

Pins to me are like cane rods. They have a utilitarian charm but are nothing but a handicap for nine out of ten fishing situations.

I take it you couldn't master one then Chris

[davelumb]

Just my personal opinion but I don't think the minor advantage of a pin for trotting is worth the handicaps they present to a novice. I've got the Marco thingy and it is a superb piece of engineering for the cost but, like all centrepins, a pain in the arriss to fish with. I use it occasionally because for sitting in a boat and trotting down the stream they are aesthetically pleasing and have a nostalgic appoeal but (imho) expedient they aint!

Without perfecting the Wallis you are hampered with distance casting, they're a complete pain for tangling around the drum, especially in windy conditions and the idea that you get a 'better feel' when playing a fish is complete cobblers.

Centrepins for me are an unnecessary hindrance. There's nothing you can do with a pin that you cant do with a decent FS and plenty you can't do with them. Unless you fancy the idea as a novelty or throw back to the past wouldn't give them a second thought.

I've also used two or three Aerials borrowed from friends down the years and they are utter garbage! If you do decide on buying one don't be fooled by the romance put up by elderly anglers and steer well clear of those over priced and out dated money pits from Allcocks.

Pins to me are like cane rods. They have a utilitarian charm but are nothing but a handicap for nine out of ten fishing situations.

[John Milford]

I've got my own views on centrepins.

I've had a G&Y Avon Royal Supreme which I've owned for decades. I then 'invested' in an Okuma Sheffield - and hated it. I was far too free running.

I like to use a good sized float when trotting. Something that will pull the pin round against a very light drag setting. This puts a very slight tension in the line and keeps everything running straight.

If the float checks in a crease in the current the reel slows too. What's the point of a super free running reel, if you constantly need to brake it with your thumb?

I accept the point about light floats but, without meaning to sound sniffy, I'm not interested in trotting with a pin for fish that require a light float. (Besides, I've had minnows bury big Avons so it is working for me?).

I've now got aerials and get on well enough with those. And big pins with pike floats are a complete joy to use!

[Steve Moore]

Got a 13ft drennan acolyte rod, and a jw youngs super lightweight as a anniversary present a few years ago,absolute joy to use for roach, dace, grayling etc.
Don't bother with a line guard.

[Mike J]

Kev
Love the Piscatorial Society label as if its something closer to the Almighty Issac, my old Club also had a Piscator moniker and to top everyone else it was the only UK Angling club where the reigning Monarch attended an AGM.

Chris,
When trotting with a FS you cannot strike into a fish and allow it to power away with one hand, line control can be achieved is by fingering the line as it flicks off the spool, which is neither in control of the fish or the reel. Further to recover line the bail arm must be first engaged without the forefinger in the line.
With a centrepin line remains straight as an arrow, not all coils and corkscrews, pressure on the fish is constant in or out and pressure on the fish is immediate and unbroken. But yes, a FS is essential for distance or on still-waters.

Everyone
Do you think winding a reel backwards is normal?
Exactly my point and that is why reels have never been made that way!
Perhaps we should suggest the backwinders turn their reels upside down

John
Im with you, a big float that catches the flow, tension set to keep line straight (ish) and when you've found a reel you can fish with stay with it forever.
My river has minnows that are so big they frighten the Perch away and will bury a 5gm/4SSG Avon with ease Grrr!
Instead of a stick I much prefer a Trent Trotter especially for winter dace on the shallows.

[Kev Berry]

Kev
Love the Piscatorial Society label as if its something closer to the Almighty Issac, my old Club also had a Piscator moniker and to top everyone else it was the only UK Angling club where the reigning Monarch attended an AGM.

Chris,
When trotting with a FS you cannot strike into a fish and allow it to power away with one hand, line control can be achieved is by fingering the line as it flicks off the spool, which is neither in control of the fish or the reel. Further to recover line the bail arm must be first engaged without the forefinger in the line.
With a centrepin line remains straight as an arrow, not all coils and corkscrews, pressure on the fish is constant in or out and pressure on the fish is immediate and unbroken. But yes, a FS is essential for distance or on still-waters.

Everyone
Do you think winding a reel backwards is normal?
Exactly my point and that is why reels have never been made that way!
Perhaps we should suggest the backwinders turn their reels upside down

John
Im with you, a big float that catches the flow, tension set to keep line straight (ish) and when you've found a reel you can fish with stay with it forever.
My river has minnows that are so big they frighten the Perch away and will bury a 5gm/4SSG Avon with ease Grrr!
Instead of a stick I much prefer a Trent Trotter especially for winter dace on the shallows.

Its a very old Society Mike, over 125 years old. Anyone below the rank of Solicitor/Doctor wasn't allowed to join till quite some years ago. Things have changed (they even let me join ) but it is still run as a Society and NOT a common fishing club.

[Chris Hammond]

Just my personal opinion but I don't think the minor advantage of a pin for trotting is worth the handicaps they present to a novice. I've got the Marco thingy and it is a superb piece of engineering for the cost but, like all centrepins, a pain in the arriss to fish with. I use it occasionally because for sitting in a boat and trotting down the stream they are aesthetically pleasing and have a nostalgic appoeal but (imho) expedient they aint!

Without perfecting the Wallis you are hampered with distance casting, they're a complete pain for tangling around the drum, especially in windy conditions and the idea that you get a 'better feel' when playing a fish is complete cobblers.

Centrepins for me are an unnecessary hindrance. There's nothing you can do with a pin that you cant do with a decent FS and plenty you can't do with them. Unless you fancy the idea as a novelty or throw back to the past wouldn't give them a second thought.

I've also used two or three Aerials borrowed from friends down the years and they are utter garbage! If you do decide on buying one don't be fooled by the romance put up by elderly anglers and steer well clear of those over priced and out dated money pits from Allcocks.

Pins to me are like cane rods. They have a utilitarian charm but are nothing but a handicap for nine out of ten fishing situations.

I take it you couldn't master one then Chris

Many a true word as they say Kev, many a true word...

[Chris Hammond]

To be fair I was wrong to say there is no 'situation' but I maintain they are more of a hindrance in most angling situations. I admit they are perfect for straightforward trotting situations and that there is something enjoyable in their use but the comparison as a plain fishing tool between them and Fs's is like comparing a side by side Purdey with an over and under Browning as a skeet gun.

In my humble opinion of course...

[martin(rockape)]

Line coming off the top or bottom whatever suits you the best.

I fish with the line coming off the bottom this way i can wind in with forward motion, personal preference.

I have a JW Young Heritage and fish it without the line guard as i can then use the palm of my hand or finger on the rim to slow or brake the line speed.

Using the palm of my hand is especially useful when fishing for carp etc on the commercial fishery that I'm fishing at the moment.

In my opinion you should fish it the way you feel most comfortable and enjoy it.

Regards

Martin

[Mike J]

To be fair I was wrong to say there is no 'situation' but I maintain they are more of a hindrance in most angling situations. I admit they are perfect for straightforward trotting situations and that there is something enjoyable in their use but the comparison as a plain fishing tool between them and Fs's is like comparing a side by side Purdey with an over and under Browning as a skeet gun.

In my humble opinion of course...

Ah now your talking my language Chris.
I shot skeet competitively from age 15 until 17, first with a side by side, then a B2 Browning but all it did was get me another few points up the classifications. Returning to a sbs I won the Pool Shoot and the British Open at Northolt, a tidy cash prize and my best ever result. From when I started it was neck&neck with my shooting partner but he rapidly pulled away and eventually went to Olympics, I gave it up after my sponsor emigrated.

Off the top, bottom or even bl00dy sideways it doesn't matter which way you fish it as long as we have the freedom to choose, which is why Im so pleased so many multipliers are now available for lefties.

Kev,
The Club as formed on 15th December 1892 and it was Queen Vic who attended the AGM, she was staying at the same hotel (still used) and popped in to watch the proceedings, the date, I haven't a clue.

[Kev Berry]

To be fair I was wrong to say there is no 'situation' but I maintain they are more of a hindrance in most angling situations. I admit they are perfect for straightforward trotting situations and that there is something enjoyable in their use but the comparison as a plain fishing tool between them and Fs's is like comparing a side by side Purdey with an over and under Browning as a skeet gun.

In my humble opinion of course...

Ah now your talking my language Chris.
I shot skeet competitively from age 15 until 17, first with a side by side, then a B2 Browning but all it did was get me another few points up the classifications. Returning to a sbs I won the Pool Shoot and the British Open at Northolt, a tidy cash prize and my best ever result. From when I started it was neck&neck with my shooting partner but he rapidly pulled away and eventually went to Olympics, I gave it up after my sponsor emigrated.

Off the top, bottom or even bl00dy sideways it doesn't matter which way you fish it as long as we have the freedom to choose, which is why Im so pleased so many multipliers are now available for lefties.

Kev,
The Club as formed on 15th December 1892 and it was Queen Vic who attended the AGM, she was staying at the same hotel (still used) and popped in to watch the proceedings, the date, I haven't a clue.

ours is older Mike 129 years this year, I am not aware of any royal connection but will have a look see

[Jason Skilton]

The Marco cortesi pin is fine, it gets better the more you use it.
The okuma Sheffield is a cracker, well worth it's money.

I have tried and tried to fish with the line off the top of the reel but I hate it, winding backwards goes against all my instincts and I find myself thinking about it before I wind in rather than just doing it.
My advice is to try both styles and see what you prefer, everyone has an opinion but what they think is irrelevant as you're the one using it!

Marco Cortesi are fine reels.....lovely to use. but if you don't have a line guard make sure you take a Philips screwdriver with you lol

[BillCollins]

I was given a Hardy Conquest as a surprise prezzy for my 50th birthday. I would never have bought it (about £350). I've used it quite a lot through the years, for big hybrids in small rivers in springtime, but mostly for tench in very tight spots where it does have advantages i.e, it won't give an inch of line unless your thumb lets it. It has a line guard which seems advantageous to a Philistine like me, but may be upsetting for the snobs. I've since bought another cheaper model, about 50-60 quid from Angling Direct. It works fine and is relatively smooth but not a patch on the Hardy. I'd like to catch a good pike on one of them sometime.

[Fentiger01]

I bought one of the Matt Hayes ones a few years ago for about £60 and it is a lovely looking bit of kit. I use it when I go on one of my one or two trips a year in deepest winter, Grayling fishing, just trotting a stick float through a small stream. I believe I've had more old boys stop by to comment how lovely it looks to see someone fishing the stream with a centrepin, than I've had advantages through using it.

A wise man once said to me, "If centre pins are that good and that efficient, why don't all the top matchboys use them in their matches"?

[martin(rockape)]

If your after a New centerpin but not wishing to spend to much money. Angling Direct are selling 2 models under the Stillwater brand name The Severn for £35 and The Wensum for £25. They spin lovely, now at that price i have no idea as to whether they would last the test of time but there can't be much to go wrong on a pin.

Anyone got one? And if so what do you think of it?

Regards

Martin

[Kev Berry]

If your after a New centerpin but not wishing to spend to much money. Angling Direct are selling 2 models under the Stillwater brand name The Severn for £35 and The Wensum for £25. They spin lovely, now at that price i have no idea as to whether they would last the test of time but there can't be much to go wrong on a pin.

Anyone got one? And if so what do you think of it?

Regards

Martin

these pins and the Marco Cortesi, Iconix, Matt Hayes, are all built on the same frame, cheap centrepins but they work well enough , I use one myself now and then with no problems.

[martin(rockape)]

If your after a New centerpin but not wishing to spend to much money. Angling Direct are selling 2 models under the Stillwater brand name The Severn for £35 and The Wensum for £25. They spin lovely, now at that price i have no idea as to whether they would last the test of time but there can't be much to go wrong on a pin.

Anyone got one? And if so what do you think of it?

Regards

Martin

these pins and the Marco Cortesi, Iconix, Matt Hayes, are all built on the same frame, cheap centrepins but they work well enough , I use one myself now and then with no problems.

Thank you for your response Kev.

Regards

Martin

[Esoxuk]

Some years ago I had some tackle stolen and had to give the insurance company a list of items. Among them was a Mordex major centrepin reel, they forwarded my list to a tackle company to match up and replace the items and to my surprise they sent me a Young’s purist with the 1” spool. I’ve used it for all types of fishing over the years including trotting lives for pike on rivers which I really enjoy doing.
I wouldn’t have payed out the money for one but it’s a pleasure to use and a great step up from the mordex.