Crucians - Idenfiication

[Jason Skilton]

There rare little beauties are hard to find and ID, so here is some useful bits

http://www.crucians.org/html/identification.php
http://www.crucians.org/html/good_photos.php
http://www.crucians.org/html/crucian_fisheries.php

The Association of Crucian Anglers also has a website

http://theassociationofcruciananglers.blogspot.com/

[Mattjb]

image.jpeg

There rare little beauties are hard to find and ID, so here is some useful bits

http://www.crucians.org/html/identification.php
http://www.crucians.org/html/good_photos.php
http://www.crucians.org/html/crucian_fisheries.php

The Association of Crucian Anglers also has a website

http://theassociationofcruciananglers.blogspot.com/

The ones I catch are apparently dna tested crucians but they seem to have 31 scale count along the lateral line . They are also coloured differently to a lot of pictures of cru's from other places, these are dark and bronze rather than the buttery gold more commonly seen . I have read though that crucians from clear water surrounded by tall trees can be coloured much darker. They are lovely fish to catch but don't come along very often on the lake I'm fishing.
Funnily enough the BBC are filming a crucian episode of Mortimer and whitehouse there at the moment. They could have picked much easier venues !
Here's a couple of examples.

[Jason Skilton]

So the scale count is a good indicator if between 32-34, but 30+ up to 36 are still possible of being true crucians.

Re colours you get quite a wide range of colours depending on the water clarity etc.

Really need to get photos of the dorsal and tail.

[Mattjb]

Next time I catch one I'll get some fin pics.

[Jason Skilton]

Next time I catch one I'll get some fin pics.

[Mattjb]

It may take a while as they are pretty scarce in there! From what I understand the water had crucians in already then the new management stocked some more that were supposedly dna tested stock around 5 years ago. There are also commons in the water just to add another factor.
The water is on the list in the link you posted but graded as U.

[Jason Skilton]

It may take a while as they are pretty scarce in there! From what I understand the water had crucians in already then the new management stocked some more that were supposedly dna tested stock around 5 years ago. There are also commons in the water just to add another factor.
The water is on the list in the link you posted but graded as U.

Great, well that fact that it has some crucians.....not so great it has the king carp though.....would be nice to get these varified :-)

[Fish on....]

Such a shame that crucians are so hard to find these days, I grew up catching them in Hilgay lakes and loved it. I’d love to catch a big one.

If I was to create my own lake, it’d be based around crucians and tench. No king carp in site!

[Jason Skilton]

Such a shame that crucians are so hard to find these days, I grew up catching them in Hilgay lakes and loved it. I’d love to catch a big one.

If I was to create my own lake, it’d be based around crucians and tench. No king carp in site!

Thats the spirit. You should look at Biggleswade & Hitchin Angling Association. I believe that have a crucian water.

[Fish on....]

Such a shame that crucians are so hard to find these days, I grew up catching them in Hilgay lakes and loved it. I’d love to catch a big one.

If I was to create my own lake, it’d be based around crucians and tench. No king carp in site!

Thats the spirit. You should look at Biggleswade & Hitchin Angling Association. I believe that have a crucian water.

Interesting, I’ll check that out. Thanks

[John Milford]

Crucians not only have colour variations but shape too.

There was a theory that the particularly deep-bodied ones were found in waters where pike were present - the thought being that their shape made them less attractive as prey, so the local strain would favour the 'unattractive' shape over time.

I caught two like gold dinner plates in my teens, both 2 1/4 pounds and like peas in a pod. Deeper bodied than the ones pictured on here. Unfortunately the picture of them, taken by a mate, is long lost. Pity, as you could all have had a good laugh at my exceedingly long hair!

The only place I've ever caught them regularly was a big pond near my school rugby pitches. I don't think there were any other fish in there. The crucians there were all small, narrow-bodied and stunted. I took a little one home on the day of the first moon landing and called it 'Buzz'. It lived happily with a goldfish for company for many years, but never grew any bigger.

Talking of goldfish, if any of those get introduced into a crucian water, they too can hybridise and compromise the strain.

[davelumb]

Crucians not only have colour variations but shape too.

There was a theory that the particularly deep-bodied ones were found in waters where pike were present - the thought being that their shape made them less attractive as prey, so the local strain would favour the 'unattractive' shape over time.

I caught two like gold dinner plates in my teens, both 2 1/4 pounds and like peas in a pod. Deeper bodied than the ones pictured on here. Unfortunately the picture of them, taken by a mate, is long lost. Pity, as you could all have had a good laugh at my exceedingly long hair!

The only place I've ever caught them regularly was a big pond near my school rugby pitches. I don't think there were any other fish in there. The crucians there were all small, narrow-bodied and stunted. I took a little one home on the day of the first moon landing and called it 'Buzz'. It lived happily with a goldfish for company for many years, but never grew any bigger.

Talking of goldfish, if any of those get introduced into a crucian water, they too can hybridise and compromise the strain.

Brown goldfish.

[John Milford]

Crucians not only have colour variations but shape too.

There was a theory that the particularly deep-bodied ones were found in waters where pike were present - the thought being that their shape made them less attractive as prey, so the local strain would favour the 'unattractive' shape over time.

I caught two like gold dinner plates in my teens, both 2 1/4 pounds and like peas in a pod. Deeper bodied than the ones pictured on here. Unfortunately the picture of them, taken by a mate, is long lost. Pity, as you could all have had a good laugh at my exceedingly long hair!

The only place I've ever caught them regularly was a big pond near my school rugby pitches. I don't think there were any other fish in there. The crucians there were all small, narrow-bodied and stunted. I took a little one home on the day of the first moon landing and called it 'Buzz'. It lived happily with a goldfish for company for many years, but never grew any bigger.

Talking of goldfish, if any of those get introduced into a crucian water, they too can hybridise and compromise the strain.

Brown goldfish.

Are that a domestic pond goldie Dave?

If pond goldfish spawn, the successive generations increasingly revert to the natural brown, at least my dad's did.

[davelumb]

Crucians not only have colour variations but shape too.

There was a theory that the particularly deep-bodied ones were found in waters where pike were present - the thought being that their shape made them less attractive as prey, so the local strain would favour the 'unattractive' shape over time.

I caught two like gold dinner plates in my teens, both 2 1/4 pounds and like peas in a pod. Deeper bodied than the ones pictured on here. Unfortunately the picture of them, taken by a mate, is long lost. Pity, as you could all have had a good laugh at my exceedingly long hair!

The only place I've ever caught them regularly was a big pond near my school rugby pitches. I don't think there were any other fish in there. The crucians there were all small, narrow-bodied and stunted. I took a little one home on the day of the first moon landing and called it 'Buzz'. It lived happily with a goldfish for company for many years, but never grew any bigger.

Talking of goldfish, if any of those get introduced into a crucian water, they too can hybridise and compromise the strain.

Brown goldfish.

Are that a domestic pond goldie Dave?

If pond goldfish spawn, the successive generations increasingly revert to the natural brown, at least my dad's did.

It's from a 'conservation' pond dug to compensate for some filled in ones. Mind you, it's had all sorts tipped in it over the year so no doubt those were descended from ornamental goldfish.

[alan behenna]

Crucians not only have colour variations but shape too.

There was a theory that the particularly deep-bodied ones were found in waters where pike were present - the thought being that their shape made them less attractive as prey, so the local strain would favour the 'unattractive' shape over time.

I caught two like gold dinner plates in my teens, both 2 1/4 pounds and like peas in a pod. Deeper bodied than the ones pictured on here. Unfortunately the picture of them, taken by a mate, is long lost. Pity, as you could all have had a good laugh at my exceedingly long hair!

The only place I've ever caught them regularly was a big pond near my school rugby pitches. I don't think there were any other fish in there. The crucians there were all small, narrow-bodied and stunted. I took a little one home on the day of the first moon landing and called it 'Buzz'. It lived happily with a goldfish for company for many years, but never grew any bigger.

Talking of goldfish, if any of those get introduced into a crucian water, they too can hybridise and compromise the strain.

Brown goldfish.

Out of one of your ponds Dave?

[davelumb]

Crucians not only have colour variations but shape too.

There was a theory that the particularly deep-bodied ones were found in waters where pike were present - the thought being that their shape made them less attractive as prey, so the local strain would favour the 'unattractive' shape over time.

I caught two like gold dinner plates in my teens, both 2 1/4 pounds and like peas in a pod. Deeper bodied than the ones pictured on here. Unfortunately the picture of them, taken by a mate, is long lost. Pity, as you could all have had a good laugh at my exceedingly long hair!

The only place I've ever caught them regularly was a big pond near my school rugby pitches. I don't think there were any other fish in there. The crucians there were all small, narrow-bodied and stunted. I took a little one home on the day of the first moon landing and called it 'Buzz'. It lived happily with a goldfish for company for many years, but never grew any bigger.

Talking of goldfish, if any of those get introduced into a crucian water, they too can hybridise and compromise the strain.

Brown goldfish.

Out of one of your ponds Dave?

Ponds which used to be free to fish, and great for wildlife watching, but are now fenced off and bailiffed by the largest angling club in Europe.

[Jason Skilton]

Crucians not only have colour variations but shape too.

There was a theory that the particularly deep-bodied ones were found in waters where pike were present - the thought being that their shape made them less attractive as prey, so the local strain would favour the 'unattractive' shape over time.

I caught two like gold dinner plates in my teens, both 2 1/4 pounds and like peas in a pod. Deeper bodied than the ones pictured on here. Unfortunately the picture of them, taken by a mate, is long lost. Pity, as you could all have had a good laugh at my exceedingly long hair!

The only place I've ever caught them regularly was a big pond near my school rugby pitches. I don't think there were any other fish in there. The crucians there were all small, narrow-bodied and stunted. I took a little one home on the day of the first moon landing and called it 'Buzz'. It lived happily with a goldfish for company for many years, but never grew any bigger.

Talking of goldfish, if any of those get introduced into a crucian water, they too can hybridise and compromise the strain.

Crucians can change there body shape to reduce the risk of being taken by a predator.

If you wanna good read, check out crock of gold by Peter Tolfe

[phil.c]

Even the experts can be fooled by hybrids..

I posted this photo a few years back to illustrate just that..

This fish had won a rod in one of the angling weeklies competitions.

It was reported as a 4lb + Crucian and had been verified by one of the weeklies usual experts.

I caught it a couple of years later.

And verified from photo as the same fish.

This time it weighed 7lb.

[Jason Skilton]

How did anyone think that's was not a hybrid Phil.

[phil.c]

How did anyone think that's was not a hybrid Phil.

Makes you wonder..

I don't know who the expert was that awarded it the comp winner status.

But can anyone remember the name of the old guy that used to be the authority on fish identification?

[davelumb]

How did anyone think that's was not a hybrid Phil.

Makes you wonder..

I don't know who the expert was that awarded it the comp winner status.

But can anyone remember the name of the old guy that used to be the authority on fish identification?

Alwynne Wheeler - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alwynne_Cooper_Wheeler

[phil.c]

How did anyone think that's was not a hybrid Phil.

Makes you wonder..

I don't know who the expert was that awarded it the comp winner status.

But can anyone remember the name of the old guy that used to be the authority on fish identification?

Alwynne Wheeler - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alwynne_Cooper_Wheeler

That's him..

I had the name Maurice in my head..

[davelumb]

How did anyone think that's was not a hybrid Phil.

Makes you wonder..

I don't know who the expert was that awarded it the comp winner status.

But can anyone remember the name of the old guy that used to be the authority on fish identification?

Alwynne Wheeler - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alwynne_Cooper_Wheeler

That's him..

I had the name Maurice in my head..

And no that old either.

[Jason Skilton]

They'd have been better off getting a EA fisheries officer

[suffolk si]

Couple here I think are the real deal, Always been in there, a few carp got put in a couple of years ago though, nice little natural water and I’ll be hunting them tomorrow on there again
Ironically I used to fish a local farm pond that was stuffed full of them 25 years ago( had a two pounder from there) I tried to get through them to catch one of the couple of mirrors that were in there up to about 8lb, how the situation has reversed now!

[suffolk si]

Bag of two pounders today , happy days
Also got very excited by a couple of rogue tench doing impressions of three pound crusians!

[Steve Le maitre]

Crucians not only have colour variations but shape too.

There was a theory that the particularly deep-bodied ones were found in waters where pike were present - the thought being that their shape made them less attractive as prey, so the local strain would favour the 'unattractive' shape over time.

I caught two like gold dinner plates in my teens, both 2 1/4 pounds and like peas in a pod. Deeper bodied than the ones pictured on here. Unfortunately the picture of them, taken by a mate, is long lost. Pity, as you could all have had a good laugh at my exceedingly long hair!

The only place I've ever caught them regularly was a big pond near my school rugby pitches. I don't think there were any other fish in there. The crucians there were all small, narrow-bodied and stunted. I took a little one home on the day of the first moon landing and called it 'Buzz'. It lived happily with a goldfish for company for many years, but never grew any bigger.

Talking of goldfish, if any of those get introduced into a crucian water, they too can hybridise and compromise the strain.

Brown goldfish.

Are that a domestic pond goldie Dave?

If pond goldfish spawn, the successive generations increasingly revert to the natural brown, at least my dad's did.

I’ve have never noticed Gold fish reverting. Koi on the other hand are strange, some offspring have colour and quite vivid and some seem to have completely reverted back to brown mud suckers !! Well all Koi are all mud suckers but some have pleasant markings and colours.

[Monts]

Bag of two pounders today , happy days
Also got very excited by a couple of rogue tench doing impressions of three pound crusians!

Nice fish Si.

[suffolk si]

cheers, hopefully a three will come my way soon

[suffolk si]

Getting closer..that three pounder can’t be far away