Fly fishing Help please.

[greencard1]

I haver got access to a trout stream, but have little idea about how to fish it.
The stream is about 10ft wide, and goes from a few inches deep to the occasional 6 foot hole. It is quite fast flowing.
It contains a few brown trout, chub, dace, roach etc.
I bought a Shakespeare 7 foot 3 weight rod and reel combination with a weight forward floating line. The fishing is supposed to be all upstream dry fly fishing.
In previous seasons I have caught a couple of tiny trout, chub, roach and dace. Biggest fish so far was a 12" chub, but there are some 4 pounders in there, and some 3 pound trout.

I have read that on the backcast, you should be able to feel the line pulling on the rod tip before you start the forward cast. Although the rod and reel are 3 weight, I don.t seem to get this. I do very little false casting. I cast the fly to one margin, and after a second or two, lift the line and cast to the other margin, then fan cast a few times across the water, and then take a step forward ( I am wading most of the time) and repeat the process. The fly comes back to me so quickly, and starts dragging, that this seems to be the only way to fish.

I have tried tapered leaders, but they often seem to snap on the strike, even with quite small fish. I have taken to using 4lb fluro as a leader, about 5 foot long, but this seems thick for some of the flies. I have got some beautiful flies that I have no idea about. I got given some tiny dry flies for Christmas. However, I mostly use daddies and something called green @rsed peter, because I find them easier to see. Even so, it seems a 4" chub will take a big daddy!

My main problems are...fly choice, line choice, and the fly coming back to me too fast in the flow (even when I cast a wavy line).

Any advice gratefully received.
Thanks
John.

[Monts]

If you were closer to me I would take you out for the day, come the new season. But as your not, and this won't really help as it's time on the water, but I'll try.

Casting will only come with practice, so go over the park. When you mention fan casting about, that seems daft to me. I'm guessing your not casting to rising fish? It's all about patience, wait and take your time, you sound like your flogging the water to foam.

Flys, your mini Chub are gluttons and will eat any fly presented badly, they are shoal fish so if they don't eat it another fish will do they get in quick.

Your can't go wrong with a selection of Adams, GNat, or a Klink. Once you have caught a few then you can branch out.

Christ knows how your striking to break a leader, it's not Bass fishing in the states John.. I use furled leaders 90% of the time when Trout fishing with drys, in 3,4,5ft length then a 3/4/6lb tippet attached to the furlie.

When swinging wets about for.coarse fish, then I'll use a 9ft mono leader and then add a tippet.

It really is trial and error mate, get out and practice casting, and on the river just sit and watch, hours at a time even. They will show themselves eventually.

I'm champing at the bit, two new rivers to fish alongside the regular ones when we can start.

PS fish the Klink and Dink method, that will catch you fish to get you started.

[greencard1]

Thanks Monts.
I'm not casting at rising fish usually, just covering the water. I can put the fly where I want it...I am just surprised that the rod is stiff for a 3 weight, but I have no experience of any other rods.
Striking is often a short pull on the line and a slow rising of the rod, but the tapered leaders seem to snap very easily. They obviously give a better presentation than straight mono though.
Some of the takes are from big fish.

Does it make sense also to say that the fish will mostly feed in the morning, and when they are full they will stop?
What is the klink and dink method?

[Monts]

Thanks Monts.
I'm not casting at rising fish usually, just covering the water. I can put the fly where I want it...I am just surprised that the rod is stiff for a 3 weight, but I have no experience of any other rods.
Striking is often a short pull on the line and a slow rising of the rod, but the tapered leaders seem to snap very easily. They obviously give a better presentation than straight mono though.
Some of the takes are from big fish.

Does it make sense also to say that the fish will mostly feed in the morning, and when they are full they will stop?
What is the klink and dink method?

Christ this is a box of worms.

What leaders, you can't go wrong with Rio and if your fishing for big fish step up the BS.

Can't help with your rod John I'm afraid, never held a Shakespeare fly rod.

Fish feed when they want, we have various hatches coming off from dawn to dusk, again it's just time out there.

Klink and Dink.

Screenshot_20240227-120024~2.png

You can buy the 'dry' with a ring already attached, then add some tippet, fish the required depth and fish a nymph underneath..If you can't catch fish with the above, take up golf.

[paintman]

May well be that if you're getting drag you're casting too far for the conditions.
Cast shorter.

As to striking you say both a pull & raise of the rod.
I think that's the problem, not the tapered casts or light tippet.
You'll get away with it with tiddlers but not on bigger fish.
After you've cast retrieve the line to stay in touch with the fly as it comes back towards you( I usually do a rapid figure of eight) & strike just by lifting the rod.

Often worth sitting & waiting & watching for a fish to rise rather than just random casting.
They will generally stay in much the same position facing upstream & you need to cast a few feet above where you saw the rise so the fly - NOT the flyline - comes down over them.
Accuracy required!
Likely you will catch the better fish as you are less likely to have lined them with the multiple casting.

[greencard1]

Thanks both.
I am only casting 6 to 8 yards in front of me. Often the wind is in my face.

The chub, trout, roach and dace are often all in the same swim. Sometimes they race each other to the fly.

Can't wait to get started now.

[fenland piker]

At the distances you are fishing, there will be little need to false cast other than to dry the fly. Often on small streams a roll cast is useful to learn so you don't hook objects behind you on the back cast.

Leader breaking sounds to me like wind knots from the loop behind collapsing while false casting and getting the timing slightly wrong. The leader will snap like cotton at one of these even if it is fairly heavy and the fish is small. Once you can cast without wind knots then maybe reduce the diameter of the leader if conditions allow and the fish are small. Fly rods are soft and you can let the fish run if there are no snags. A 4lb tip on a 3 weight should be fine unless presentation is affected for crystal clear water and small flies/ spooky fish.

In a fast flowing stream the fish may not be too fussy of fly choice as long as it approximately resembles the colour and size of natural food, and critically the fly is presented without drag and without spooking the fish. Some of the more general patterns often outfish more specific fly patterns unless there is a decent hatch on and fish have become fixated. Parachute Adams and Klinkhammers are good for general patterns but there are plenty of choices and having a range of sizes might help as much as lots of different flies to choose from. Moving slowly and less casting will help prevent scaring the better fish before they see the fly.

Practice your casting on lawn with a piece of wool on the leader tip instead of a fly. Get it to the point where you can gently lay the line at the distance you fish accurately landing the "fly" on a target the size of a dinner plate. Keep checking the leader for wind knots and get in that habit for when you fish. Another common issue is trying to force the cast so it collapses as the leader unfurls, checking the cast before the line lands will straighten the leader and also make presentation quieter and cause less wind knots.

Dealing with drag is a matter of practice and mending the line to give slack so the fly doesn't drag. If your casting is accurate and you present the fly ahead of feeding or rising fish, then you don't need it on the water for long to get a strike and drag becomes less of an issue.

[greencard1]

Thanks f p. Good advice.

Wind knots makes sense. I will keep checking in the future. I really hope to catch one of the bigger chub or trout this season.

I bought a copy of Fishing for Trout with Mr Cherry and Jim, but it has not helped much.

[Luke]

What's the visibility like? For big fish in small streams on dry fly, one well-placed cast will usually yield better results than hours of blindly thrashing the water.

As Monts suggested, less casting, more observation.

[greencard1]

It is usually as clear as tap water Luke.
I am able to see the fish from the bridges, or walking the bank.
Surface glare and a ripple due to wind means that it is not easy to see the fish when wading.
My eyesight is not good, which is why I have been using big flies. I am sure that some days a tiny fly would be better. I am too old and knackered to want to learn about entomology.
It is very exciting fishing, even when a 4" chub takes the fly.

[Monts]

It is usually as clear as tap water Luke.
I am able to see the fish from the bridges, or walking the bank.
Surface glare and a ripple due to wind means that it is not easy to see the fish when wading.
My eyesight is not good, which is why I have been using big flies. I am sure that some days a tiny fly would be better. I am too old and knackered to want to learn about entomology.
It is very exciting fishing, even when a 4" chub takes the fly.

I'm going through my dry fly boxes this weekend having a sort out. I've got some small Klinks with a pink post that are easy to see. PM me you're address and I'll pop them in the post next week with a few others.

[Oldskoolfool]

Sounds like wind knots weakening the leader

Suggest get a copy of River Trout Fishingd by Peter Lapsley - very useful you'll find

Drop me a pm and I'll send you some flies if you want like Monts gearing up for new season and fly tying like a loony

[greencard1]

Thanks both of you for the kind offers. I have got boxes and boxes and boxes of flies because people keep getting me them for Christmas, birthdays etc. I have most likely got some Klinks among them.
For reasons I will not go into, this is probably my last season fishing this stream. I only get to fish it a few times each year, and have got hundreds of flies to lose!

I wish people would get me pike lures for Christmas. I lose plenty of those too.

Thanks again.
John

[Monts]

Thanks both of you for the kind offers. I have got boxes and boxes and boxes of flies because people keep getting me them for Christmas, birthdays etc. I have most likely got some Klinks among them.
For reasons I will not go into, this is probably my last season fishing this stream. I only get to fish it a few times each year, and have got hundreds of flies to lose!

I wish people would get me pike lures for Christmas. I lose plenty of those too.

Thanks again.
John

I get the impression John angling in general really isn't your forte. Model railways may have suited you better

I hope you get a few though this coming season.

[greencard1]

God loves a tryer though Monts.

From a very early age I got addicted to seeing a float go under...as we all did. Also addicted to a take on a lure rod, and the sight of a fly being taken.

I have tried leave it alone...but I can't.
There are worse things to be addicted to!

[Monts]

God loves a tryer though Monts.

From a very early age I got addicted to seeing a float go under...as we all did. Also addicted to a take on a lure rod, and the sight of a fly being taken.

I have tried leave it alone...but I can't.
There are worse things to be addicted to!