Chapman 500 split cane avon

Talk about Lure/Tackle ID's; Reminisce over bygone times and old fishing tackle
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John Milford
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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by John Milford » Tue Feb 06 2018 11:18

davelumb wrote:
I'd forgotten about hollow glass rods with ferrules. That WAS before my time!
Who are you kidding!? :laughs:

I'm only a year or so older than you and I've got one I remember my Dad buying new :roll:
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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by davelumb » Tue Feb 06 2018 11:31

Maybe I didn't start fishing as young as you did, John. All my hollow glass rods had spigots. The solid glass rods however...

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Mike J » Tue Feb 06 2018 13:29

Hi Keith, Dave, et al.
Your rambling have bought back some good memories about Olivers and their blanks.

Around '63-64 just after I bought my first Sportex Hornsea, I paid a visit to Olivers and they showed me a bundle of similar gold/honey coloured uncut blanks saying there were some Hornsea blanks amongst them if I ever wanted to make a pair.
A year or so later I bought a second Hornsea (from a shop in Luton) but returned to Olivers some years later to buy two sets of nickel silver ferrules because the originals didn't look to healthy after a few seasons fishing jackbaits, and they still had a bundle of those lovely golden Sportex blanks standing there.
I also have a Hardy's Fibretube rod, the 10ft No:2 spinner bought from new, its caught me thousands upon thousands of fish in both sea and fresh, Ive reringed and trimmed the ferrule to keep it going, practically unbreakable blank and I wouldn't be without it.

I think a gold Ambidex would also be from the 500 era, lovely gearing but a hopelessly soft bail arm, if used for long enough.

On a completely different subject, I have a virtually unused Sharpe's Wilson International fly rod, the rod comes with a dolly section for use in the butt when in transit, unfortunately the female 23/64" ferrule has cracked and needs replacing. Do you have such an item in stock or know where I might find one?

Many thanks

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Mattjb » Tue Feb 06 2018 20:04

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Keith,I've had a think and I'd like to take you up on your very generous offer.
I'll look out for a reel to suit it and maybe use it for some evening fishing after work on the Bristol Avon for chub etc.
Here are some photos of it in its present condition so you know what you are letting yourself in for!
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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Mattjb » Tue Feb 06 2018 20:11

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I think one ferrule has been replaced as it is cleaner more brassy than the others.
If you look closely you can see the intermediate whippings are more pink in colour than the others.I guess the rings have been replaced as well to be in that good condition.
Overall I think it was worth the £15!
Matt
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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by John Milford » Tue Feb 06 2018 20:31

On my rod, I've noticed the top doesn't fit fully into the middle section ferrule - it fits tightly enough, but there is about 1/2" or more of the male ferrule still visible. Is this usual? I'm beginning to wonder if there is a broken-off ferrule stopper rammed down it?
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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Mattjb » Wed Feb 07 2018 20:13

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I just nipped out to the garage and took a pic of mine John,yeah I know it's a bit out of focus!
The top ferrule does stick out a bit on mine , about 10mm I would guess.it looks like the upper ferrule on the mid section has been replaced at some point so I'm not sure if it's typical either!
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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by John Milford » Wed Feb 07 2018 20:48

Looks very similar to mine when put together. Perhaps it's just how they're made?

I've resolved to take mine next time I try for perch and yes, I'm going to use a perch bob :grin: :pipe:
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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by keith the piker » Wed Feb 07 2018 21:27

OK, we're on ... I am not the least bit IT savvy so don't know how to go about all this complicated PM stuff ... Give me a call on my mobile - 07713149683 - and we can work out the best way forward. Can we make that over the weekend as I'll be on a very big lake with no signal for the next couple of days? I went out for a couple of hours this evening and took a very nice fish of 19lb. Very bloody cold out there!!

From the photos I can see that the rod has been renovated previously as the rings aren't original and the whipping thread is not original, even on the rings. The ferrule may have been replaced but it could be that someone has sanded it back to a brass finish and then varnished it? I'll strip it back to bare brass and then "blue" it so that it looks like the original. The handle looks to be in good nick. I think what it needs is everything removing, the cane buffing up and then a rebuild with the right colour thread. This is actually easier than fiddling around trying to keep some whips in place.

As to the split ferrule on the fly rod - Agutters (just Google it) carry a range of ferrule sizes. Fitting a ferrule is a bit tricky - the cane needs to be built up on the flats to create a round section. Many manufacturers didn't bother with that and the end result is that they will eventually work loose ...

On the male ferrule not fitting fully into the female (oooh Matron ...) - the usual gap when the rod is first made is about 1/4 inch. 1/2 inch is a bit excessive but not a real problem. You could improve it by carefully sanding down with fine crocus cloth and a fine grinding paste but probably not worth the effort in truth. On a really heavy duty rod it will matter as the pressure on the female ferrule could lead to it splitting, but I'm talking here of big game rods of the inter war era.

The rod renovation won't be speedy, I'm afraid, as I have a number of things on right now - I'll explain when we speak on the phone - and the varnishing process I use takes a little time as I'm not using new-fangled epoxy based materials. They are very good indeed but, in my view, are not suited to old cane rods. Just doesn't look right ... If you going to keep the rod I can go the whole hog and put agate tip and butt rings on as well as graduated intermediates. That will really look the business but will, paradoxically, reduce the resale price as it won't be as the original ... The intermediates can be more like the B.James rods, ie at a much closer spacing.

I'll try to obtain a gold decal but these may now be all gone ... luckily, the lettering is in place so I can touch it up with the right colour gold paint if necessary.

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Mattjb » Wed Feb 07 2018 22:14

Nice one Keith,I'll give you a call over the weekend,you are a bit brave posting your number on here you will be inundated with people wanting free rod refurbs if you are not careful! I was looking at a few pictures of other rebuilt 500s ,some of the ones with dark green whippings look striking and intermediate whippings do make the rods look classy but I think I'd rather have it done as close to original as possible with original colour whippings.
After all if you are going to have and use an item of classic tackle surely it should look original!
Time is not an issue Keith,I didn't expect to end up with this rod it just happened to be an impulse lucky buy.
Well done on the 19 and hopefully there are a few more for you in the next couple of days!
In the meantime I'd suggest listening to some Wurzels songs so you can understand my accent!
Cheers
Matt

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by keith the piker » Thu Feb 08 2018 08:17

Great - Speak over the weekend. Only one free refurb on offer!

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by keith the piker » Thu Feb 08 2018 20:31

Matt -

A long shot, but I will be in a signal area tomorrow in the morning if you can ring then. Otherwise the weekend.

Had a couple today at 14 and 11 and got thoroughly wet in the process!

I'll discuss it with you properly but I think the best thing will be if i strip the rod down and then see how best to renovate it. The intermediates may leave a mark on the cane when they are removed which will mean that their replacement is needed. Impossible to know before taking them off and buffing up the cane surface. As you'll know, it is not clever to take the enamel surface of the cane off as that is the key to its strength. If the plan is to take the rod back to the original design I have the correct Gudebrod thread and a set of original rings. The original rod was very simple indeed! No frills ...

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Mattjb » Thu Feb 08 2018 21:27

Sounds good Keith,I might be able to call in the morning if work isn't too hectic! As to the rod I'm happy to leave it in your capable hands and judgement.I'm pretty sure I'll be keeping it when it's done,it's growing on me,every time I'm in the garage I pick it up and look at it!
I could do with a couple of doubles myself at the moment,will probably be fishing Sunday but not sure where yet.
Hopefully speak tomorrow,
Matt

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Nobby C » Thu Feb 08 2018 21:46

So Keith, is there some sort of price list for refurbs or is it a quote per case?

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Mike J » Fri Feb 09 2018 09:58

Thanks for the advice Keith.

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by keith the piker » Fri Feb 09 2018 23:15

Nobby -

I'm not really actively working on refurbs any more but, yes, quotes per particular rod. Some people charge a standard amount for work - eg £30 to fit a ferrule, £45 for a standard cork handle etc. This sort of refurbishment, especially in cane, is, in truth often really labour intensive and if anyone was to try to charge per hour the cost would be prohibitive! My take on it has always been that it is an interesting task which is part of a wider passion for angling (good title for a DVD there?) What I like most is to take on a real basket case and to then recreate the fine rod it once was

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Nobby C » Sat Feb 10 2018 14:58

I think I have just the thing then. It's not at my house so I'll ping you some pictures if I may. It's a MARCO test 3 piece.

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by keith the piker » Sun Feb 11 2018 00:40

OK -

Never done one of them ... look forward to seeing the pics.

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by keith the piker » Sun Feb 11 2018 00:59

Before going any further it is important to say that the Modern Arms Company (MARCO) rods don't fetch good prices compared with other cane rods, apart from their hollow built ones.

So, it would need to be a sentimental (to you) rod to be worth spending much on. If the handle is sound and the rings and ferrules rescueable, then some re whipping and varnishing will bring it up to scratch, but I'd probably counsel against a full-blown restoration to be honest. Even with a good original bag, the original ferrule stoppers, all the rings and an intact logo I doubt that it would be worth much over £80, maybe £100 at a pinch.

I'll look at the photos and advise. Even if you do decide to go ahead, I'll be really honest with you about what is worth undertaking. If it has multi coloured whippings on the rings that will be an extra expense as they are a pig to do!! I've done up a few Aspindale rods where the customer has settled for plain rather than multi coloured whippings - in truth, they look a lot better, if not entirely authentic ...

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Nobby C » Sun Feb 11 2018 01:27

In that case I think I'll use the sections to beat the wife and kids with then as there's no rings left and a ferrule is gone. But thanks for the advice. :laughs:

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by keith the piker » Sun Feb 11 2018 14:29

Probably wise! The rings will cost about £30 and the ferrule around £20. If it is in that kind of state we'll be talking about a handle refurb, re-blueing the ferrules, complete re - whip and full varnishing. All in all, even at my knock down rates, that will come to well over £100 for a rod that is worth less than that!

If you were talking about a B.James MK IV Avon, for example, so long as the cane is basically sound (not even straight ...) I'd charge the same but the rod will sell for over £500 ...

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news!

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Nobby C » Sun Feb 11 2018 19:38

No worries Keith, in light of the current thread thought I'd chuck that in, TBH, I wasn't expecting much more than what you said.
Whipping family members it is.

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Neville Fickling » Tue Mar 27 2018 15:57

Keith I’ve got a 500 I caught my record zander on it. The top is broken. I’ll get it out of the loft and take some pics and see if it is recoverable

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by John Milford » Tue Mar 27 2018 17:39

Neville Fickling wrote:
Keith I’ve got a 500 I caught my record zander on it. The top is broken. I’ll get it out of the loft and take some pics and see if it is recoverable
:cool: They should make you an honorary member of the 'Golden Scale' club Neville! :pipe:
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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Neville Fickling » Tue Mar 27 2018 18:12

No anything but that

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by John Milford » Tue Mar 27 2018 18:49

May I remind you that you were also wearing a floppy hat when you caught your record zander! :clown:
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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by keith the piker » Wed Mar 28 2018 13:41

Nev - ok, if you post some pics I’ll see if it can be brought back from the dead! Will depend on where the break is mainly. Normally, a broken split cane rod is a goner but may not be.

I do have a spare top section for a 500. That would not really be the same, though, as it would then only be half the rod!

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Neville Fickling » Wed Mar 28 2018 15:00

Thanks keith will get that sorted, busy with bloody smelt!

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by keith the piker » Wed Mar 28 2018 21:00

I take jumbo smelt in payment ...

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Re: Chapman 500 split cane avon

Post by Neville Fickling » Fri Mar 30 2018 08:52

the way its going I'll be sticking two smelt together to make one big one.......................

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