Q about a vintage lure type....

Talk about Lure/Tackle ID's; Reminisce over bygone times and old fishing tackle
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Mark_Houghton
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Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mark_Houghton » Sat Apr 21 2018 14:38

Flatfish type lures, Lazy Ike, Helin/Wordens Flatfish, Kwikfish (not so vintage), and others.....did anyone ever catch anything much on those things?? They were one old style lure that I always struggled with, despite them looking lovely in the water....be interesting to see if other old schoolers found the same?

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by jonsykes » Sat Apr 21 2018 15:44

I sell any I get hold of to someone in Ireland who does very well with them for the Ferox.

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mark_Houghton » Sat Apr 21 2018 15:45

jonsykes wrote:
I sell any I get hold of to someone in Ireland who does very well with them for the Ferox.
Heard Trout like them :thumbs:

I know Barrie Rickards amongst others did well on them, but they`ve always been a bogey lure for me....

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Steve Burke » Sat Apr 21 2018 16:06

One of my favourites, especially for trolling, both for pike and perch. Believe it or not the 5inch Flatfish was particularly good for perch. My former fishing partner Peter Rogers even had a brace of 3lbers on a 5 inch Flatfish! We put a picture in The Book of the Perch.

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mark_Houghton » Sat Apr 21 2018 16:43

Steve Burke wrote:
One of my favourites, especially for trolling, both for pike and perch. Believe it or not the 5inch Flatfish was particularly good for perch. My former fishing partner Peter Rogers even had a brace of 3lbers on a 5 inch Flatfish! We put a picture in The Book of the Perch.
Thanks Steve. I have the book "angling afloat" here with a chapter by Peter on trolling for Perch in which he mentions them. I`m assuming youve done ok on them when casting too? :smile:

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Steve Burke » Sat Apr 21 2018 17:38

OK yes, but not as good as trolling. However that's probably because they don't dive deep enough for the waters I've been fishing. They also don't cast well, especially the jointed versions.

My favourite of this type for casting is the Heddon Magnum Tadpolly.

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mark_Houghton » Sat Apr 21 2018 17:45

Steve Burke wrote:
OK yes, but not as good as trolling. However that's probably because they don't dive deep enough for the waters I've been fishing. They also don't cast well, especially the jointed versions.

My favourite of this type for casting is the Heddon Magnum Tadpolly.
Thanks Steve :thumbs: Tadpollys are one of the lures along those lines i`ve done ok on. Agree about the casting abilility, only the larger sizes were anywhere near decent for casting to any distance with....

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John Milford
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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by John Milford » Sat Apr 21 2018 18:55

My first lure-caught pike came on one of the Woolworth's 'Flatfish' copies - yellow with red spots. Still got it somewhere - it has a lot to answer for!

I've done OK with them for pike over the years and my son was especially jammy with them as a lad :wink:

I think Helins were the first of this type, originally wood. I've never liked the 'coathanger' hooking arrangement on some of theirs - always snipped them off and replaced with single trebles. This odd arrangement is a throwback to what these lures were originally designed for - fishing very slowly behind a 'bottom- bouncing' lead - the array of small coathanger-mounted trebles were there to maximise hook-ups from 'nipping' perch and trout. That is also why they are often so very buoyant - to stop them hanging up when fished this way.

I think Kwikfish acquired some of Helin's plant but not the business, as such, after their sad demise - which would explain why their lures are so very similar.

The jointed Kwikfish 'K12J', which was near nuetral density with a trace, was Barrie's favourite - in 'coach dog'. He had at least three twenty pounders on that plug!

The single Kwikfish K14 in chrome with pink spots proved deadly for Perchfisher Pete 'Jolly' Rogers. Here's a famous picture of him (off the web) from 'The Book of the Perch' with a double hook-up of three pounders! :cool: (Ha ha! - just noticed Steve Burke - hello Steve :wave: - already mentioned that above!)

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mark_Houghton » Sat Apr 21 2018 19:11

John Milford wrote:
My first lure-caught pike came on one of the Woolworth's 'Flatfish' copies - yellow with red spots. Still got it somewhere - it has a lot to answer for!

I've done OK with them for pike over the years and my son was especially jammy with them as a lad :wink:

I think Helins were the first of this type, originally wood. I've never liked the 'coathanger' hooking arrangement on some of theirs - always snipped them off and replaced with single trebles. This odd arrangement is a throwback to what these lures were originally designed for - fishing very slowly behind a 'bottom- bouncing' lead - the array of small coathanger-mounted trebles were there to maximise hook-ups from 'nipping' perch and trout. That is also why they are often so very buoyant - to stop them hanging up when fished this way.

I think Kwikfish acquired some of Helin's plant but not the business, as such, after their sad demise - which would explain why their lures are so very similar.

The jointed Kwikfish 'K12J', which was near nuetral density with a trace, was Barrie's favourite - in 'coach dog'. He had at least three twenty pounders on that plug!

The single Kwikfish K14 in chrome with pink spots proved deadly for Perchfisher Pete 'Jolly' Rogers. Here's a famous picture of him (off the web) from 'The Book of the Perch' with a double hook-up of three pounders! :cool: (Ha ha! - just noticed Steve Burke - hello Steve :wave: - already mentioned that above!)

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Cheers John, lots of interesting info as always mate. What have you found is the key to catching on them? slow crawl retrieves?

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by John Milford » Sat Apr 21 2018 19:29

Tadpollys and Lazy Ike's are easy to fish with. Magnum Tadpollys are one of my all-time favourite lures.

Kwikfish kind of fish themselves, like all crankbaits. Retrieve too fast and they can flip over - also quite tiring to use as the bigger ones in particular put up a lot of resistance on the retrieve. I've done best with them on a straight, steady retrieve - just fast enough to get and keep them down. That's probably why Perch like them.

A 'niche' I have for them, is when there are pockets of clear water in otherwise weedy areas - especially on some of the rivers I used to fish, like the Medway. I figured a lure with a big, not too deep action would maximise the chances of a short 'retrieve window'. Seemed to work well enough.
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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mark_Houghton » Sat Apr 21 2018 19:35

John Milford wrote:
Tadpollys and Lazy Ike's are easy to fish with. Magnum Tadpollys are one of my all-time favourite lures.

Kwikfish kind of fish themselves, like all crankbaits. Retrieve too fast and they can flip over - also quite tiring to use as the bigger ones in particular put up a lot of resistance on the retrieve. I've done best with them on a straight, steady retrieve - just fast enough to get and keep them down. That's probably why Perch like them.

A 'niche' I have for them, is when there are pockets of clear water in otherwise weedy areas - especially on some of the rivers I used to fish, like the Medway. I figured a lure with a big, not too deep action would maximise the chances of a short 'retrieve window'. Seemed to work well enough.
Ta :thumbs: Seems i wasnt fishing them "wrong" then, they must just be a bogey lure for me. I recall Gord mentioning similar scenarios where they worked well....working in small areas where the lures gave maximum attraction on a short retrieve. Might give them another whirl and see if I can break the jinx :laughs:

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Steve Burke » Sat Apr 21 2018 21:49

Like John I don't like the coathanger hooking arrangement. I found the hooks too weak on the smaller sizes, whilst pike all too often levered themselves off. No problem with the standard hooks though.

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mark_Houghton » Sat Apr 21 2018 22:10

Steve Burke wrote:
Like John I don't like the coathanger hooking arrangement. I found the hooks too weak on the smaller sizes, whilst pike all too often levered themselves off. No problem with the standard hooks though.
I think another reason for that hook arrangement was to add stability to the smaller size flatfish baits. I was given a handful of small flatfish wooden blanks a while back, and that arrangement did make a big difference to the stability when I built them up etc. Not keen on it either personally though Steve.

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mike J » Sun Apr 22 2018 10:20

Ive caught well in Ikes and Kwiks.
On one place I often found that Pike would gulp Kwicks right down giving a slackline take.
Still have some around.....somewhere :scratch:


But Bent Minnows are more fun.

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by fergie68 » Sun Apr 22 2018 18:07

I tried them time and again trolled for the ferox never had a single offer even on lochs with pike present I couldn't get a take with them.
I gave up with them even though I liked the action. The smaller ones could be a pain surfacing all the time.
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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mark_Houghton » Sun Apr 22 2018 20:12

fergie68 wrote:
I tried them time and again trolled for the ferox never had a single offer even on lochs with pike present I couldn't get a take with them.
I gave up with them even though I liked the action. The smaller ones could be a pain surfacing all the time.
Ta Fergie, I thought i was the only one who struggled with them :coat:

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by John Milford » Sun Apr 22 2018 20:26

There are occasions when fish love them, but equally times when they find them a bit 'too much'.

I've found this calms them down a bit:

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Mark_Houghton » Sun Apr 22 2018 20:44

John Milford wrote:
There are occasions when fish love them, but equally times when they find them a bit 'too much'.

I've found this calms them down a bit:

Image
Good ploy, and an extra bit of attraction too :thumbs: There`s a vid on youtube with Bob Mehsikomer fishing for big Lakers where he`s putting grubs on both hooks, not so much to quieten the lure down but for getting more strikes from followers.

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Will Smith » Mon Apr 30 2018 19:26

I have quite a few of this type of lure and like Alan found that they flip over and come to the surface on anything but the slowest of trolling speeds, even when casting I found that it had to be a slow retrieve to keep them down.
I never caught much on them but, in all fairness have never given them a fair crack of the whip.

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by fergie68 » Mon Apr 30 2018 21:11

I'm sure John Bailey was pushing them as a must have ferox lure. :roll: :roll:
ALL FEROX ARE BROWN TROUT BUT NOT ALL BROWN TROUT ARE FEROX "

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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by John Milford » Mon Apr 30 2018 21:27

I know nothing about ferox, but the only lure of this type that I'd consider trolling is the Heddon 'Magnum Tadpolly'. It's the least typical, but a very stable lure for its action - its narrow 'neck' probably helps. It is also much more solidly built than Flatfish/Kwikfish.
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Re: Q about a vintage lure type....

Post by Will Smith » Mon Apr 30 2018 22:40

Agreed, they certainly troll well John, at any speed.
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