No lynx for Keilder

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No lynx for Keilder

Post by davelumb » Tue Dec 04 2018 18:12

The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Tue Dec 04 2018 18:55

davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by martin godliman » Thu Dec 06 2018 13:45

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by Mike J » Thu Dec 06 2018 21:42

martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.


A few years back there was a TV programme that claimed the domestic cat originated from the wild cats of Iberia.
I have seen both the Cats and the Genet in the Monchique mountains and inland from the Donana. They are not hunted but those who build swimming pools around their inland villas have been responsible for many accidental drownings.
Many times I sat and hoped to see an Iberian Lynx, and failed every time.

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by martin godliman » Fri Dec 07 2018 10:49

Mike J wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.


A few years back there was a TV programme that claimed the domestic cat originated from the wild cats of Iberia.
I have seen both the Cats and the Genet in the Monchique mountains and inland from the Donana. They are not hunted but those who build swimming pools around their inland villas have been responsible for many accidental drownings.
Many times I sat and hoped to see an Iberian Lynx, and failed every time.
I had to look up Monchique :smile: I see it's in Portugal, I'm talking about the country around where I go fishing most years for week or two in Extremadura in Spain where Lee Parks lives and has his fishing business on lake Cijara. It's Carl Allen who does the photography I'm talking about of the local wildlife he has Facebook page of his stuff ....stunning pics especially the bats, birds, boars...everything almost, professional standard.

Any way I've already asked Lee he's never seen or heard of a Iberian Lynx in there area....yet, It's fairly remote area of rural Spain with lots of countryside so just maybe.

One day Carl and I were looking down into the water from the Dam end (we always stop there for a look down the lake and stretch our legs) when we saw a fresh water snake appear from the depths swim along the surface for a bit then dive down and nestle between some rocks......I had to look that up :grin:
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by Mike J » Fri Dec 07 2018 11:32

It is a very small world Martin.
This spring I stood on the same dam as you and tried to drop bread to the fish below!

The previous pic I posted of the water hyacinth in the Guardiana was taken South of Embalse del Cijara the same week.
I dont use FB so perhaps you could PM me your firieds details so I catch up with him on my trip.

:handshake:

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by martin godliman » Fri Dec 07 2018 12:52

Mike J wrote:
It is a very small world Martin.
This spring I stood on the same dam as you and tried to drop bread to the fish below!

The previous pic I posted of the water hyacinth in the Guardiana was taken South of Embalse del Cijara the same week.
I dont use FB so perhaps you could PM me your firieds details so I catch up with him on my trip.

:handshake:
PM Mike.
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Mon Dec 10 2018 01:21

martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity" Seneca, some Roman chap.

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by martin godliman » Mon Dec 10 2018 09:18

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.
Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday.

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by davelumb » Mon Dec 10 2018 09:34

Eagle owls. Now there's one to get the birdy types flustered. There are some living wild in the UK but they are deemed to be escapees and the RSPB has said they should be discouraged* as they are a threat to hen harriers and other native birds.

* Google says: "An RSPB officer told me that if there was a significant increase in eagle owl numbers it might be wise to “nip the colonisation in the bud” before they became a problem for our own birds of prey. "

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by Mike J » Mon Dec 10 2018 10:23

martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.

The reitroduction of Red Kites are one of our major success stories.
Around 5years I drove down a long single width track into the heart of the Irati Forest and when we parked at the very end a Ranger appeared. We got chatting and it turned out he was the guy who was responsible for collecting and bring the first Red Kite chicks into the UK in the '89-94 reintroduction programme, he mentioned the name of his UK liaison and asked if we knew him?? Did we, yes, my wife had coffee with him the previous week!

The problem with running large areas of forestry like Keilder is managing deer numbers and an apex predator capable of removing the old, sick or injured is a definite assest to any forest manager. Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here, they would also discourage silly visitors from letting their pooch 'play' with the deer!

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Mon Dec 10 2018 10:25

davelumb wrote:
Eagle owls. Now there's one to get the birdy types flustered. There are some living wild in the UK but they are deemed to be escapees and the RSPB has said they should be discouraged* as they are a threat to hen harriers and other native birds.

* Google says: "An RSPB officer told me that if there was a significant increase in eagle owl numbers it might be wise to “nip the colonisation in the bud” before they became a problem for our own birds of prey. "
* Google says: "An RSPB officer told me that if there was a significant increase in eagle owl numbers it might be wise to “nip the colonisation in the bud” before they became a problem for our own birds of prey. "

I said no such thing! :laughs:

Cheers alan
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by Kev Berry » Mon Dec 10 2018 10:51

davelumb wrote:
Eagle owls. Now there's one to get the birdy types flustered. There are some living wild in the UK but they are deemed to be escapees and the RSPB has said they should be discouraged* as they are a threat to hen harriers and other native birds.

* Google says: "An RSPB officer told me that if there was a significant increase in eagle owl numbers it might be wise to “nip the colonisation in the bud” before they became a problem for our own birds of prey. "
apparently the gun club lot were concerned the eagle owls were nabbing too many grouse---an examination of their pellets proved otherwise but showed a big surprise, they like to eat buzzards :eek:

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Mon Dec 10 2018 11:08

martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.
"we need something to take out the domestic cats"

I wonder what damage the estimated 8 million cats in the uk do?
Over the years dawn and I have had 12 cats (fostered over 300 kitterns :red:) and of those 12 there have been only two or three real killers so going on those numbers that's about 2 million small mammal and bird killers.
These cats kill less than one creature per day on average but through spring and summer its more, I tried to work it out or guess it out but googled aswell and "they" recon that 275million small animals are killed each year of that 55 million are birds, I think that number is on the low side.
With all that carnage going on and forgetting about the other manmade influences upon bird numbers, such as farming pesticides and habitat loss I wonder how feeding the birds as many people do offset the numbers killed by cats?
For years I didn't feed the birds because of our cats although my neighbours did and now for years I have and it doesn't seam to have made a difference to the kills on the door mat as cats will hunt wherever they can.
50% of house holds feed the birds with 60,000 tonnes of food per year so the numbers saved through winter by feeding probably offsets these numbers to a good degree, so the moral of this story is, get a cat...feed the birds :thumbs:

Cheers Alan
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity" Seneca, some Roman chap.

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by davelumb » Mon Dec 10 2018 11:14

Kev Berry wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Eagle owls. Now there's one to get the birdy types flustered. There are some living wild in the UK but they are deemed to be escapees and the RSPB has said they should be discouraged* as they are a threat to hen harriers and other native birds.

* Google says: "An RSPB officer told me that if there was a significant increase in eagle owl numbers it might be wise to “nip the colonisation in the bud” before they became a problem for our own birds of prey. "
apparently the gun club lot were concerned the eagle owls were nabbing too many grouse---an examination of their pellets proved otherwise but showed a big surprise, they like to eat buzzards :eek:
But surely every introduced predator will feed exclusively on rabbits? :clown:

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Mon Dec 10 2018 13:02

davelumb wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Eagle owls. Now there's one to get the birdy types flustered. There are some living wild in the UK but they are deemed to be escapees and the RSPB has said they should be discouraged* as they are a threat to hen harriers and other native birds.

* Google says: "An RSPB officer told me that if there was a significant increase in eagle owl numbers it might be wise to “nip the colonisation in the bud” before they became a problem for our own birds of prey. "
apparently the gun club lot were concerned the eagle owls were nabbing too many grouse---an examination of their pellets proved otherwise but showed a big surprise, they like to eat buzzards :eek:
But surely every introduced predator will feed exclusively on rabbits? :clown:
Even otters?

Cheers Alan :laughs:
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity" Seneca, some Roman chap.

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by davelumb » Mon Dec 10 2018 13:07

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Eagle owls. Now there's one to get the birdy types flustered. There are some living wild in the UK but they are deemed to be escapees and the RSPB has said they should be discouraged* as they are a threat to hen harriers and other native birds.

* Google says: "An RSPB officer told me that if there was a significant increase in eagle owl numbers it might be wise to “nip the colonisation in the bud” before they became a problem for our own birds of prey. "
apparently the gun club lot were concerned the eagle owls were nabbing too many grouse---an examination of their pellets proved otherwise but showed a big surprise, they like to eat buzzards :eek:
But surely every introduced predator will feed exclusively on rabbits? :clown:
Even otters?

Cheers Alan :laughs:
I bet an otter wouldn't turn it's twitchy little nose up at a rabbit dinner!

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Mon Dec 10 2018 13:17

davelumb wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Eagle owls. Now there's one to get the birdy types flustered. There are some living wild in the UK but they are deemed to be escapees and the RSPB has said they should be discouraged* as they are a threat to hen harriers and other native birds.

* Google says: "An RSPB officer told me that if there was a significant increase in eagle owl numbers it might be wise to “nip the colonisation in the bud” before they became a problem for our own birds of prey. "
apparently the gun club lot were concerned the eagle owls were nabbing too many grouse---an examination of their pellets proved otherwise but showed a big surprise, they like to eat buzzards :eek:
But surely every introduced predator will feed exclusively on rabbits? :clown:
Even otters?

Cheers Alan :laughs:
I bet an otter wouldn't turn it's twitchy little nose up at a rabbit dinner!
Agreed, Dave so maybe the EA should start stocking some :thumbs:

Cheers Alan
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by martin godliman » Mon Dec 10 2018 13:17

So is anything eating the "accidentally" introduced muntjac, other than people ? I nearly ran one over the other day it was grazing so close the road, I think there must be more of them than we might realise they are so discreet and secretive.

Rabbits were introduced by the Romans....then there's grey squirrels ! damaging the population of our cute little red squirrels with their nasty diseases, zander :smile: ....mink ! ....otters, ?...Sea Eagles in Scotland where to stop ?

Difficult to be sniffy about one creature and not another can be a tricky deciding ?
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by martin godliman » Mon Dec 10 2018 15:16

martin godliman wrote:
Mike J wrote:
It is a very small world Martin.
This spring I stood on the same dam as you and tried to drop bread to the fish below!

The previous pic I posted of the water hyacinth in the Guardiana was taken South of Embalse del Cijara the same week.
I dont use FB so perhaps you could PM me your firieds details so I catch up with him on my trip.

:handshake:
PM Mike.
Another PM Mike :thumbs:
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Mon Dec 10 2018 22:12

Mike J wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.

The reitroduction of Red Kites are one of our major success stories.
Around 5years I drove down a long single width track into the heart of the Irati Forest and when we parked at the very end a Ranger appeared. We got chatting and it turned out he was the guy who was responsible for collecting and bring the first Red Kite chicks into the UK in the '89-94 reintroduction programme, he mentioned the name of his UK liaison and asked if we knew him?? Did we, yes, my wife had coffee with him the previous week!

The problem with running large areas of forestry like Keilder is managing deer numbers and an apex predator capable of removing the old, sick or injured is a definite assest to any forest manager. Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here, they would also discourage silly visitors from letting their pooch 'play' with the deer!
" Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here"

So you would support the introduction of a non indigenous apex predator then ,Mike?
History shows its usually a massive mistake, not saying it would be in this case like but going on past cases, there is nearly always an unforeseen nock on effect.
martin godliman wrote:
So is anything eating the "accidentally" introduced muntjac, other than people ? I nearly ran one over the other day it was grazing so close the road, I think there must be more of them than we might realise they are so discreet and secretive.

Rabbits were introduced by the Romans....then there's grey squirrels ! damaging the population of our cute little red squirrels with their nasty diseases, zander :smile: ....mink ! ....otters, ?...Sea Eagles in Scotland where to stop ?

Difficult to be sniffy about one creature and not another can be a tricky deciding ?


As far as I know ,Martin there are no predators that can take any of the dear in the uk other than say a fox nicking the odd fawn and so they are generally unmolested.
As for their number including all 6 deer species, theres tonnes of them, most of which are non indigenous with only the red and the roe being native, like you say, there are more than we realise.

As for the cats, as I said to Mike its a dangerous thing to put things in as its generally much harder to take them out so casion should be taken, possibly releasing sterilised cats as a trial could be an option if the dear are having a negative effect on native species.
The reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone actually put more salmon into the rivers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

Cheers Alan
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity" Seneca, some Roman chap.

Kev Berry
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Posts: 17319
Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
Location: Robin Hood country

Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by Kev Berry » Mon Dec 10 2018 23:49

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Mike J wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.

The reitroduction of Red Kites are one of our major success stories.
Around 5years I drove down a long single width track into the heart of the Irati Forest and when we parked at the very end a Ranger appeared. We got chatting and it turned out he was the guy who was responsible for collecting and bring the first Red Kite chicks into the UK in the '89-94 reintroduction programme, he mentioned the name of his UK liaison and asked if we knew him?? Did we, yes, my wife had coffee with him the previous week!

The problem with running large areas of forestry like Keilder is managing deer numbers and an apex predator capable of removing the old, sick or injured is a definite assest to any forest manager. Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here, they would also discourage silly visitors from letting their pooch 'play' with the deer!
" Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here"

So you would support the introduction of a non indigenous apex predator then ,Mike?
History shows its usually a massive mistake, not saying it would be in this case like but going on past cases, there is nearly always an unforeseen nock on effect.
martin godliman wrote:
So is anything eating the "accidentally" introduced muntjac, other than people ? I nearly ran one over the other day it was grazing so close the road, I think there must be more of them than we might realise they are so discreet and secretive.

Rabbits were introduced by the Romans....then there's grey squirrels ! damaging the population of our cute little red squirrels with their nasty diseases, zander :smile: ....mink ! ....otters, ?...Sea Eagles in Scotland where to stop ?

Difficult to be sniffy about one creature and not another can be a tricky deciding ?


As far as I know ,Martin there are no predators that can take any of the dear in the uk other than say a fox nicking the odd fawn and so they are generally unmolested.
As for their number including all 6 deer species, theres tonnes of them, most of which are non indigenous with only the red and the roe being native, like you say, there are more than we realise.

As for the cats, as I said to Mike its a dangerous thing to put things in as its generally much harder to take them out so casion should be taken, possibly releasing sterilised cats as a trial could be an option if the dear are having a negative effect on native species.
The reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone actually put more salmon into the rivers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

Cheers Alan
re introducing wolves did a hell of a lot more than increase salmon numbers Alan, and all for the good----the prolific predator free deer herds were wrecking Yellowstone and driving many animals away due to the damage they were doing to the flora
your idea of releasing sterilised lynx is a good one (or maybe just one sex?)---radio collared as well so IF they are a problem it will be no trouble finding them

cookiesdaughtersdad
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Posts: 7099
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Tue Dec 11 2018 00:00

Kev Berry wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Mike J wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.

The reitroduction of Red Kites are one of our major success stories.
Around 5years I drove down a long single width track into the heart of the Irati Forest and when we parked at the very end a Ranger appeared. We got chatting and it turned out he was the guy who was responsible for collecting and bring the first Red Kite chicks into the UK in the '89-94 reintroduction programme, he mentioned the name of his UK liaison and asked if we knew him?? Did we, yes, my wife had coffee with him the previous week!

The problem with running large areas of forestry like Keilder is managing deer numbers and an apex predator capable of removing the old, sick or injured is a definite assest to any forest manager. Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here, they would also discourage silly visitors from letting their pooch 'play' with the deer!
" Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here"

So you would support the introduction of a non indigenous apex predator then ,Mike?
History shows its usually a massive mistake, not saying it would be in this case like but going on past cases, there is nearly always an unforeseen nock on effect.
martin godliman wrote:
So is anything eating the "accidentally" introduced muntjac, other than people ? I nearly ran one over the other day it was grazing so close the road, I think there must be more of them than we might realise they are so discreet and secretive.

Rabbits were introduced by the Romans....then there's grey squirrels ! damaging the population of our cute little red squirrels with their nasty diseases, zander :smile: ....mink ! ....otters, ?...Sea Eagles in Scotland where to stop ?

Difficult to be sniffy about one creature and not another can be a tricky deciding ?


As far as I know ,Martin there are no predators that can take any of the dear in the uk other than say a fox nicking the odd fawn and so they are generally unmolested.
As for their number including all 6 deer species, theres tonnes of them, most of which are non indigenous with only the red and the roe being native, like you say, there are more than we realise.

As for the cats, as I said to Mike its a dangerous thing to put things in as its generally much harder to take them out so casion should be taken, possibly releasing sterilised cats as a trial could be an option if the dear are having a negative effect on native species.
The reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone actually put more salmon into the rivers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

Cheers Alan
re introducing wolves did a hell of a lot more than increase salmon numbers Alan, and all for the good----the prolific predator free deer herds were wrecking Yellowstone and driving many animals away due to the damage they were doing to the flora
your idea of releasing sterilised lynx is a good one (or maybe just one sex?)---radio collared as well so IF they are a problem it will be no trouble finding them
I think the increase in salmon was one of the least expected things, Kev as with the rivers habit of meandering being reduced so the wolves actually changed the physical geography, all that from a hand full of big mutts!

Cheers Alan
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity" Seneca, some Roman chap.

Kev Berry
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Posts: 17319
Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
Location: Robin Hood country

Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by Kev Berry » Tue Dec 11 2018 00:24

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Mike J wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.

The reitroduction of Red Kites are one of our major success stories.
Around 5years I drove down a long single width track into the heart of the Irati Forest and when we parked at the very end a Ranger appeared. We got chatting and it turned out he was the guy who was responsible for collecting and bring the first Red Kite chicks into the UK in the '89-94 reintroduction programme, he mentioned the name of his UK liaison and asked if we knew him?? Did we, yes, my wife had coffee with him the previous week!

The problem with running large areas of forestry like Keilder is managing deer numbers and an apex predator capable of removing the old, sick or injured is a definite assest to any forest manager. Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here, they would also discourage silly visitors from letting their pooch 'play' with the deer!
" Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here"

So you would support the introduction of a non indigenous apex predator then ,Mike?
History shows its usually a massive mistake, not saying it would be in this case like but going on past cases, there is nearly always an unforeseen nock on effect.
martin godliman wrote:
So is anything eating the "accidentally" introduced muntjac, other than people ? I nearly ran one over the other day it was grazing so close the road, I think there must be more of them than we might realise they are so discreet and secretive.

Rabbits were introduced by the Romans....then there's grey squirrels ! damaging the population of our cute little red squirrels with their nasty diseases, zander :smile: ....mink ! ....otters, ?...Sea Eagles in Scotland where to stop ?

Difficult to be sniffy about one creature and not another can be a tricky deciding ?


As far as I know ,Martin there are no predators that can take any of the dear in the uk other than say a fox nicking the odd fawn and so they are generally unmolested.
As for their number including all 6 deer species, theres tonnes of them, most of which are non indigenous with only the red and the roe being native, like you say, there are more than we realise.

As for the cats, as I said to Mike its a dangerous thing to put things in as its generally much harder to take them out so casion should be taken, possibly releasing sterilised cats as a trial could be an option if the dear are having a negative effect on native species.
The reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone actually put more salmon into the rivers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

Cheers Alan
re introducing wolves did a hell of a lot more than increase salmon numbers Alan, and all for the good----the prolific predator free deer herds were wrecking Yellowstone and driving many animals away due to the damage they were doing to the flora
your idea of releasing sterilised lynx is a good one (or maybe just one sex?)---radio collared as well so IF they are a problem it will be no trouble finding them
I think the increase in salmon was one of the least expected things, Kev as with the rivers habit of meandering being reduced so the wolves actually changed the physical geography, all that from a hand full of big mutts!

Cheers Alan
the beaver came back is why the salmon came back Alan, they altered the rivers and streams back to how it used to be with their dams. The wolves made the deer/elk alter their feeding as well as cropping the numbers

cookiesdaughtersdad
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Posts: 7099
Joined: Tue Nov 06 2012 06:00
Location: Cambs

Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Tue Dec 11 2018 00:37

Kev Berry wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Mike J wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.

The reitroduction of Red Kites are one of our major success stories.
Around 5years I drove down a long single width track into the heart of the Irati Forest and when we parked at the very end a Ranger appeared. We got chatting and it turned out he was the guy who was responsible for collecting and bring the first Red Kite chicks into the UK in the '89-94 reintroduction programme, he mentioned the name of his UK liaison and asked if we knew him?? Did we, yes, my wife had coffee with him the previous week!

The problem with running large areas of forestry like Keilder is managing deer numbers and an apex predator capable of removing the old, sick or injured is a definite assest to any forest manager. Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here, they would also discourage silly visitors from letting their pooch 'play' with the deer!
" Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here"

So you would support the introduction of a non indigenous apex predator then ,Mike?
History shows its usually a massive mistake, not saying it would be in this case like but going on past cases, there is nearly always an unforeseen nock on effect.
martin godliman wrote:
So is anything eating the "accidentally" introduced muntjac, other than people ? I nearly ran one over the other day it was grazing so close the road, I think there must be more of them than we might realise they are so discreet and secretive.

Rabbits were introduced by the Romans....then there's grey squirrels ! damaging the population of our cute little red squirrels with their nasty diseases, zander :smile: ....mink ! ....otters, ?...Sea Eagles in Scotland where to stop ?

Difficult to be sniffy about one creature and not another can be a tricky deciding ?


As far as I know ,Martin there are no predators that can take any of the dear in the uk other than say a fox nicking the odd fawn and so they are generally unmolested.
As for their number including all 6 deer species, theres tonnes of them, most of which are non indigenous with only the red and the roe being native, like you say, there are more than we realise.

As for the cats, as I said to Mike its a dangerous thing to put things in as its generally much harder to take them out so casion should be taken, possibly releasing sterilised cats as a trial could be an option if the dear are having a negative effect on native species.
The reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone actually put more salmon into the rivers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

Cheers Alan
re introducing wolves did a hell of a lot more than increase salmon numbers Alan, and all for the good----the prolific predator free deer herds were wrecking Yellowstone and driving many animals away due to the damage they were doing to the flora
your idea of releasing sterilised lynx is a good one (or maybe just one sex?)---radio collared as well so IF they are a problem it will be no trouble finding them
I think the increase in salmon was one of the least expected things, Kev as with the rivers habit of meandering being reduced so the wolves actually changed the physical geography, all that from a hand full of big mutts!

Cheers Alan
the beaver came back is why the salmon came back Alan, they altered the rivers and streams back to how it used to be with their dams. The wolves made the deer/elk alter their feeding as well as cropping the numbers
Did you watch the video kev?

Cheers Alan
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity" Seneca, some Roman chap.

Kev Berry
General
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Posts: 17319
Joined: Sat Aug 27 2011 05:00
Location: Robin Hood country

Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by Kev Berry » Tue Dec 11 2018 08:57

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Mike J wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.

The reitroduction of Red Kites are one of our major success stories.
Around 5years I drove down a long single width track into the heart of the Irati Forest and when we parked at the very end a Ranger appeared. We got chatting and it turned out he was the guy who was responsible for collecting and bring the first Red Kite chicks into the UK in the '89-94 reintroduction programme, he mentioned the name of his UK liaison and asked if we knew him?? Did we, yes, my wife had coffee with him the previous week!

The problem with running large areas of forestry like Keilder is managing deer numbers and an apex predator capable of removing the old, sick or injured is a definite assest to any forest manager. Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here, they would also discourage silly visitors from letting their pooch 'play' with the deer!
" Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here"

So you would support the introduction of a non indigenous apex predator then ,Mike?
History shows its usually a massive mistake, not saying it would be in this case like but going on past cases, there is nearly always an unforeseen nock on effect.
martin godliman wrote:
So is anything eating the "accidentally" introduced muntjac, other than people ? I nearly ran one over the other day it was grazing so close the road, I think there must be more of them than we might realise they are so discreet and secretive.

Rabbits were introduced by the Romans....then there's grey squirrels ! damaging the population of our cute little red squirrels with their nasty diseases, zander :smile: ....mink ! ....otters, ?...Sea Eagles in Scotland where to stop ?

Difficult to be sniffy about one creature and not another can be a tricky deciding ?


As far as I know ,Martin there are no predators that can take any of the dear in the uk other than say a fox nicking the odd fawn and so they are generally unmolested.
As for their number including all 6 deer species, theres tonnes of them, most of which are non indigenous with only the red and the roe being native, like you say, there are more than we realise.

As for the cats, as I said to Mike its a dangerous thing to put things in as its generally much harder to take them out so casion should be taken, possibly releasing sterilised cats as a trial could be an option if the dear are having a negative effect on native species.
The reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone actually put more salmon into the rivers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

Cheers Alan
re introducing wolves did a hell of a lot more than increase salmon numbers Alan, and all for the good----the prolific predator free deer herds were wrecking Yellowstone and driving many animals away due to the damage they were doing to the flora
your idea of releasing sterilised lynx is a good one (or maybe just one sex?)---radio collared as well so IF they are a problem it will be no trouble finding them
I think the increase in salmon was one of the least expected things, Kev as with the rivers habit of meandering being reduced so the wolves actually changed the physical geography, all that from a hand full of big mutts!

Cheers Alan
the beaver came back is why the salmon came back Alan, they altered the rivers and streams back to how it used to be with their dams. The wolves made the deer/elk alter their feeding as well as cropping the numbers
Did you watch the video kev?

Cheers Alan
No Al I watched a programme on TV some time back ... was a really good one showing the stupidity of removing an apex predator like the wolf. There is some thought that even though the wolf has altered Yellowstone decline that it will never fully recover.
There are still ranchers and elk hunters who would kill the lot given the chance

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Mike J
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by Mike J » Tue Dec 11 2018 09:36

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Mike J wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
martin godliman wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
davelumb wrote:
The Lynx UK Trust's application for a licence to introduce lynx to Kielder Forest has been turned down on advice from natural England. :thumbs:

Over to you Alan. :laughs:
:laughs: :thumbs:

Bloody right too, Dave the Eurasian lynx that they were planning to "introduce" (rather than reintroduce :wink: ) has never existed within these shores, the cat we had was similar to the Iberian Lynx which is considerably smaller and more suited to catching rabbits as opposed to deer, so infact they would instantly have to be classed as a non indigenous alien species unlike the otter :coat: :exit:

Cheers Alan
'We had' as in gone out of existence Alan ? or so similar as to make no difference ?.......I guess I could look it up myself.

I find the smaller cats of the world much more mysterious and interesting in some ways than lions, tigers, leopards...big cats that have been done to death on wildlife programmes.

A friend of mine who has now gone to live in Spain and is just as interested in wild life photography as fishing has been getting pictures ( on a trail camera) of the wildcat that is native there (like the Scottish wildcat but a bit smaller)....and gennets ? I didn't know were there, not native but been in Spain a long time.
Martin, the cat "we had" was similar to the Iberian one but not the same and definitely nothing like the Eurasian one that they planned to introduce, so in my opinion none of the above should be released.....ever!

Cheers Alan
Pity it would be nice to think of species of lynx properly native to this country that could be reintroduced....we need something to take out the domestic cats that rampage through the population of song birds and small creatures. Apparently Eagle owls take moggies and the odd fluffy poodle....we need more eagle owls. :thumbs:

In my part of the country especially when I'm out of the Thames if you look up there's just about always a red tailed kite in the sky one day last week I counted eight I could see, positively passe.

The reitroduction of Red Kites are one of our major success stories.
Around 5years I drove down a long single width track into the heart of the Irati Forest and when we parked at the very end a Ranger appeared. We got chatting and it turned out he was the guy who was responsible for collecting and bring the first Red Kite chicks into the UK in the '89-94 reintroduction programme, he mentioned the name of his UK liaison and asked if we knew him?? Did we, yes, my wife had coffee with him the previous week!

The problem with running large areas of forestry like Keilder is managing deer numbers and an apex predator capable of removing the old, sick or injured is a definite assest to any forest manager. Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here, they would also discourage silly visitors from letting their pooch 'play' with the deer!
" Eurasian Lynx fill this roll in Scandanavian forests and would do the same here"

So you would support the introduction of a non indigenous apex predator then ,Mike?
History shows its usually a massive mistake, not saying it would be in this case like but going on past cases, there is nearly always an unforeseen nock on effect.
martin godliman wrote:
So is anything eating the "accidentally" introduced muntjac, other than people ? I nearly ran one over the other day it was grazing so close the road, I think there must be more of them than we might realise they are so discreet and secretive.

Rabbits were introduced by the Romans....then there's grey squirrels ! damaging the population of our cute little red squirrels with their nasty diseases, zander :smile: ....mink ! ....otters, ?...Sea Eagles in Scotland where to stop ?

Difficult to be sniffy about one creature and not another can be a tricky deciding ?


As far as I know ,Martin there are no predators that can take any of the dear in the uk other than say a fox nicking the odd fawn and so they are generally unmolested.
As for their number including all 6 deer species, theres tonnes of them, most of which are non indigenous with only the red and the roe being native, like you say, there are more than we realise.

As for the cats, as I said to Mike its a dangerous thing to put things in as its generally much harder to take them out so casion should be taken, possibly releasing sterilised cats as a trial could be an option if the dear are having a negative effect on native species.
The reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone actually put more salmon into the rivers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q

Cheers Alan


Yes Alan I would.
I would also support the reintroduction of wolves into the highlands for the same reasons as lynx.
There has long been a requirement for an apex predator in our larger forests, an opinion that was well supported by many serious conservationists in the mid '90's when papers were presented at the various conferences I attended.
The lynx does an exceptional job in Scandinavia where they remove the sick, lame and old roe deer, they are so effective that when research scientists fitted tracking collars the lynx removed the animals before any useful date could be recovered.

I have managed areas with high populations of muntjac and fallow and both can suffer predation by foxes when the fawns are young. Control of mature animals is well understood and can produce a revenue for an organisation. The problems arise when animals are hit by cars and manage to leave the area of the collision. Such animals cannot be ignored and must be tracked and dispatched, the man hours this can involve has a negative impact on the effectiveness of staff in areas where the deer population is high or widespread. Members of the Public (MOPs) have no idea what actually happens, and to give you an idea my staff and one volunteer dealt with 16 such incidents in our worst month.

As for cats in MOP ownership, their predation on wildlife is well researched and clearly understood to the extent that many of the new developments near sensitive areas have restrictions imposed on cat ownership or fencing and buffer zones added to their consents.
Cats also know they should not be in the open countryside as anyone who has seen one will know, the cat doesn't wander around as it does in gardens and streets, it hunkers down and tries everything it can to avoid being seen by an approaching human, and when the opportunity arrises it will skulk away as unobtrusively as possible.

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by davelumb » Tue Dec 11 2018 09:53

Cats also know they should not be in the open countryside as anyone who has seen one will know, the cat doesn't wander around as it does in gardens and streets, it hunkers down and tries everything it can to avoid being seen by an approaching human, and when the opportunity arrises it will skulk away as unobtrusively as possible.
All the cats round here behave like that when they see me approach. :joker:

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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by martin godliman » Tue Dec 11 2018 10:12

Given that we are a small island and most of the land has been managed and well and truly and owned so controlled by someone for a very long time....hasn't it ? and so wild areas more or less non existent ?

Any attempt to introduce or reintroduce a creature can't but help being piecemeal and always an unknown quantity to some extent... ?

If the animal is quite big is it not easier to remove it if it doesn't work out like the coypu was got rid of (though obviously not native in that case)

...and what is the status and future of boar numbers in this country now ?

Mike ?
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Re: No lynx for Keilder

Post by davelumb » Tue Dec 11 2018 10:31

Never mind boar. Do you know how many beavers there are in the UK? :afraid: :laughs:

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