Otter trap??

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Thu Apr 14 2016 14:44

Rhubarb wrote:
Otter holts do not really assist the sopread of otters. fresh waterways and an ample supply of food, together with reintroductions, helps the otter spread.
Many of the holts I have examined are a joke, just a couple of plastic pipes stuck into the ground. They're an expensive joke. Do they not realise that otter's prefer more natural settings? And, besides, otters lay up in cover more times than they do in a 'holt'. When they do use a holt it is often just a hollow under a root or a gap in a rock pile.
The problem I have is that these animals have been introduced in good numbers and they have caused alot of damage. Suddenly fishery owners have got to find 20, 30K to fence off their fishery and cannot do anything else to protect their fish. Why are all these 'nature' bodies obsessed with apex predators?
Otter numbers are only going to rise, so there's going to be a hell of a lot more news of them.
One fishery I control mink on is about 2 mile from the nearest river, in suburbia, and yet once a month an otter comes and killed at least one carp in the 4-7lb range, eats a mouthful and then leaves it.....
:wink:

Cheers Alan
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by The predator » Thu Apr 14 2016 16:40

AndyFrost wrote:
There aren't many about like Cookie........ I think it's time we reintroduced a few more.

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by Duncan Holmes » Thu Apr 14 2016 18:32

Rhubarb wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:
The problem I have is that these animals have been introduced in good numbers...
No. NO. NO!!!! They've been REintroduced. :boing:
I chose my words carefully.

Ok, where do you think the otters came from originally that started this mass breeding project?

I'll tell ya; they came from the highlands, on the coast where the density is the highest.

SO the otter today isn't your lowland otter, it is a Scottish otter that has spent many thousands of years evolving to fit the niche perfectly. Yes, I know they all share the same latin name, but they are, in my belief, a different 'type'.Just like the red kites that hang like vultures upon every zephyr, they are not English red kites, but red kites from the continent.

Otters are here to stay, we'd best get used to them.
So I am not mental then :grin: I have been spouting about the "new" otters being completely different in behaviour from the "existing" broads otters for the last few years. Nice to hear someone else with the same theory :thumbs:
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Thu Apr 14 2016 18:45

Duncan Holmes wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:
The problem I have is that these animals have been introduced in good numbers...
No. NO. NO!!!! They've been REintroduced. :boing:
I chose my words carefully.

Ok, where do you think the otters came from originally that started this mass breeding project?

I'll tell ya; they came from the highlands, on the coast where the density is the highest.

SO the otter today isn't your lowland otter, it is a Scottish otter that has spent many thousands of years evolving to fit the niche perfectly. Yes, I know they all share the same latin name, but they are, in my belief, a different 'type'.Just like the red kites that hang like vultures upon every zephyr, they are not English red kites, but red kites from the continent.

Otters are here to stay, we'd best get used to them.
So I am not mental then :grin: I have been spouting about the "new" otters being completely different in behaviour from the "existing" broads otters for the last few years. Nice to hear someone else with the same theory :thumbs:
if that's the case then we are talking about a possible subspecies :shrug:

Cheers Alan
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by AndyFrost » Thu Apr 14 2016 19:04

Google up Eurasian (spelling :scratch: ) Otter :wink:

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by pikerholic2 » Thu Apr 14 2016 19:27

So that explains all the tenants cans surrounding the half eaten fish then rhubarb ,
So rab must be the johnny Morris of otter speak then!
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by Duncan Holmes » Thu Apr 14 2016 21:30

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:
The problem I have is that these animals have been introduced in good numbers...
No. NO. NO!!!! They've been REintroduced. :boing:
I chose my words carefully.

Ok, where do you think the otters came from originally that started this mass breeding project?

I'll tell ya; they came from the highlands, on the coast where the density is the highest.

SO the otter today isn't your lowland otter, it is a Scottish otter that has spent many thousands of years evolving to fit the niche perfectly. Yes, I know they all share the same latin name, but they are, in my belief, a different 'type'.Just like the red kites that hang like vultures upon every zephyr, they are not English red kites, but red kites from the continent.

Otters are here to stay, we'd best get used to them.
So I am not mental then :grin: I have been spouting about the "new" otters being completely different in behaviour from the "existing" broads otters for the last few years. Nice to hear someone else with the same theory :thumbs:
if that's the case then we are talking about a possible subspecies :shrug:

Cheers Alan
I'm not sure about the terminology , but I have certainly observed what I would say was a marked difference in behaviour, one is very shy of humans, the other bold (even confrontational at times).
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by piker al » Thu Apr 14 2016 22:14

Dave Lumb has hit the nail on the head,in my area the Scottish Borders my local water has been absolutely battered by otters,a once great bream water with fish 8lb+ they are almost extinct now,
BUT here's the point I've fished there since the mid 90s and there has always been a couple of otters on the loch,every year there was a few carcasses here an there,but the loch could sustain it and we used to love seeing the otters ,, but 2008 the big slaughter started,dead fish everywhere an when the bream spawned year after year the otters just annialated them,2012 there was approaching 50 dead bream most with there throats ripped out,loads of doubles just killed for a bite of the organs,and 10lb of fish left to rot!!!!
Dave probably knows and has fished this water at some point and maby even fished it at some point,but times change and the law must change,otters are no different to a fox,if it was up to me I would slaughter them

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Fri Apr 15 2016 02:38

Duncan Holmes wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Rhubarb wrote:
The problem I have is that these animals have been introduced in good numbers...
No. NO. NO!!!! They've been REintroduced. :boing:
I chose my words carefully.

Ok, where do you think the otters came from originally that started this mass breeding project?

I'll tell ya; they came from the highlands, on the coast where the density is the highest.

SO the otter today isn't your lowland otter, it is a Scottish otter that has spent many thousands of years evolving to fit the niche perfectly. Yes, I know they all share the same latin name, but they are, in my belief, a different 'type'.Just like the red kites that hang like vultures upon every zephyr, they are not English red kites, but red kites from the continent.

Otters are here to stay, we'd best get used to them.
So I am not mental then :grin: I have been spouting about the "new" otters being completely different in behaviour from the "existing" broads otters for the last few years. Nice to hear someone else with the same theory :thumbs:
if that's the case then we are talking about a possible subspecies :shrug:

Cheers Alan
I'm not sure about the terminology , but I have certainly observed what I would say was a marked difference in behaviour, one is very shy of humans, the other bold (even confrontational at times).
If these animals were (although I doubt it) a sub species, then technically they will have been introduced, rather than reintroduced :wink: :laughs:
piker al wrote:
Dave Lumb has hit the nail on the head,in my area the Scottish Borders my local water has been absolutely battered by otters,a once great bream water with fish 8lb+ they are almost extinct now,
BUT here's the point I've fished there since the mid 90s and there has always been a couple of otters on the loch,every year there was a few carcasses here an there,but the loch could sustain it and we used to love seeing the otters ,, but 2008 the big slaughter started,dead fish everywhere an when the bream spawned year after year the otters just annialated them,2012 there was approaching 50 dead bream most with there throats ripped out,loads of doubles just killed for a bite of the organs,and 10lb of fish left to rot!!!!
Dave probably knows and has fished this water at some point and maby even fished it at some point,but times change and the law must change,otters are no different to a fox,if it was up to me I would slaughter them
Why would you want to slaughter either :roll: so its a good job its not up to you :thumbs:

Cheers Alan
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by davelumb » Fri Apr 15 2016 07:35

piker al wrote:
Dave probably knows and has fished this water at some point and maby even fished it at some point....
I reckon I have. It was the first place I ever saw an otter in the wild, too.

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by pikerholic2 » Fri Apr 15 2016 21:23

Was that an introduced otter dave? Or a re introduced otter?
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by AndyFrost » Fri Apr 15 2016 21:49

pikerholic2 wrote:
Was that an introduced otter dave? Or a re introduced otter?
Mr Google will be along shortly to inform us all.

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Sat Apr 16 2016 07:58

AndyFrost wrote:
pikerholic2 wrote:
Was that an introduced otter dave? Or a re introduced otter?
Mr Google will be along shortly to inform us all that Andy Frost is repeatedly rude and disrespectful whose balls would soon shrivel if he crawled out from under his keyboard :wink:

Andy.

Cheers Alan
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by davelumb » Sat Apr 16 2016 08:26

pikerholic2 wrote:
Was that an introduced otter dave? Or a re introduced otter?
Neither. :smile:

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by pikerholic2 » Sat Apr 16 2016 14:56

f**k. :scratch: :scratch: :shrug:
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by davelumb » Sat Apr 16 2016 15:04

It was a native otter. One with a Scottish accent. :grin:

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by Andrew Croft » Sat Apr 16 2016 15:14

Nige Johns wrote:
Can you get a man-size one for putting dog walkers in-only to be let out when they put it back on its lead
Just dont put smelt in it. Might come back to find Nev foamin at the mouth trying to get out.
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by Andrew Croft » Sat Apr 16 2016 15:34

davelumb wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
Interestingly I knew of two holts on the broads that had been populated for many years, long before the introductions, yet both these areas are now otterless. Any ideas? :scratch:
That's strange.
My understanding for a while has been the reintroduced otters are nit the native ones.

Uerasian (spelling?) otter :scratch:

Its like white clawed cray fish versus signal cray fish

yes both cray fish but completely diffirent in behaviour. Also ones native the other is not.
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by pikerholic2 » Sat Apr 16 2016 20:26

pikerholic2 wrote:
So that explains all the tenants cans surrounding the half eaten fish then rhubarb ,
So rab must be the johnny Morris of otter speak then!

One of these then andrew
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Sun Apr 17 2016 07:43

Andrew Croft wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
Interestingly I knew of two holts on the broads that had been populated for many years, long before the introductions, yet both these areas are now otterless. Any ideas? :scratch:
That's strange.
My understanding for a while has been the reintroduced otters are nit the native ones.

Uerasian (spelling?) otter :scratch:

Its like white clawed cray fish versus signal cray fish

yes both cray fish but completely diffirent in behaviour. Also ones native the other is not.
Andy, our otter and the Eurasian or European otter (latin name lutra lutra) are one and the same.
In an earlier post, Rhubarb suggested that the otters used for the breading project were taken from the highlands, if Rhubarb is looking in, I would like and be interested to see evidence of this.
Other than a difference in behaviour due to obvious difference in geography and prey, is there really any difference in behaviour such as the highland otter being bolder for example. All the otters I have seen over the last 25 years have been fearful of people although others say different.
Its would be very difficult if not impossible to prove that the reintroduced specimens are a subspecies of the European otter and personally I dont think so.
Its also worth pointing out that approximately a third of reintroduced otters have been rehabilitated ones that were put back to the place of origin, or so "they" say.
Start hunting them with dogs again and you would quickly see their behaviour change.
The two different species of crayfish are just that, different species, different physical characteristics as well as behavior.
Tufted duck are typically much more wary of people than Mallards, where I fished recently, the "Tufties" are almost just as bold as the Mallards due to the amount of people using the lake such as dog walkers with a bag of bread, it was nice to take such good close ups of a beautiful small duck that is usually 100 yards away, just a shame the little feckers would dive just off my rod tops and hit the lines, so much so I started having to scare them off :roll: :laughs:

Cheers Alan
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by ibexis » Wed Apr 20 2016 20:31

Over the last couple of years I have been seeing more and more otters around my local area, including the Broads and other local much smaller non tidal rivers.
They are a beautiful animal to watch, on the one hand I am pleased they are making a return because as a child it was amazing for me to even catch a glimpse of one.
On the other however, it does concern me that the ones around my area seem totally oblivious to human contact, they seem to be growing up with no fear of humans at all.
I do wonder whether it is partly the extra protection they are being given because of their "endangered" status that is causing this apparent change in behaviour, i.e. no fear of anything.
I hope that as otter numbers stabilise to a sustainable level and young fish grow up being wary of the constant threat of being eaten by these apex predators things will settle back into a pattern that existed in days gone by.

Not wanting to be all doom and gloom though I'm not entirely sure if this will even truly happen as I don't believe there is full equilibrium with our waterways as can be evidenced by the River Authority's continued requirements to "top up" fish stocks all over the place due to pollution, illegal fishing and all the other pressures that affect our modern life.

Hopefully one day I will see this to be proven wrong.

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by Kev Berry » Thu Apr 21 2016 09:59

ibexis wrote:
Over the last couple of years I have been seeing more and more otters around my local area, including the Broads and other local much smaller non tidal rivers.
They are a beautiful animal to watch, on the one hand I am pleased they are making a return because as a child it was amazing for me to even catch a glimpse of one.
On the other however, it does concern me that the ones around my area seem totally oblivious to human contact, they seem to be growing up with no fear of humans at all.
I do wonder whether it is partly the extra protection they are being given because of their "endangered" status that is causing this apparent change in behaviour, i.e. no fear of anything.
I hope that as otter numbers stabilise to a sustainable level and young fish grow up being wary of the constant threat of being eaten by these apex predators things will settle back into a pattern that existed in days gone by.

Not wanting to be all doom and gloom though I'm not entirely sure if this will even truly happen as I don't believe there is full equilibrium with our waterways as can be evidenced by the River Authority's continued requirements to "top up" fish stocks all over the place due to pollution, illegal fishing and all the other pressures that affect our modern life.

Hopefully one day I will see this to be proven wrong.
what I find strange is the smaller members of the same family are classed as vermin-----weasels , stoats and mink----all are beautiful looking and a joy to watch hunting, but they are controlled because they also eat pheasants and other ground nesting birds (as well as rats etc)

exactly the same as otters will do, only they will eat fish as well, yet they are protected?

I blame the Wind in the Willows for all this otter hugging

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by davelumb » Thu Apr 21 2016 12:01

Kev Berry wrote:
I blame the Wind in the Willows for all this otter hugging
Ring of Bright water more like.

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by pikerholic2 » Thu Apr 21 2016 17:25

Tarka was a c**t :study:
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Fri Apr 22 2016 15:04

Kev Berry wrote:
ibexis wrote:
Over the last couple of years I have been seeing more and more otters around my local area, including the Broads and other local much smaller non tidal rivers.
They are a beautiful animal to watch, on the one hand I am pleased they are making a return because as a child it was amazing for me to even catch a glimpse of one.
On the other however, it does concern me that the ones around my area seem totally oblivious to human contact, they seem to be growing up with no fear of humans at all.
I do wonder whether it is partly the extra protection they are being given because of their "endangered" status that is causing this apparent change in behaviour, i.e. no fear of anything.
I hope that as otter numbers stabilise to a sustainable level and young fish grow up being wary of the constant threat of being eaten by these apex predators things will settle back into a pattern that existed in days gone by.

Not wanting to be all doom and gloom though I'm not entirely sure if this will even truly happen as I don't believe there is full equilibrium with our waterways as can be evidenced by the River Authority's continued requirements to "top up" fish stocks all over the place due to pollution, illegal fishing and all the other pressures that affect our modern life.

Hopefully one day I will see this to be proven wrong.
what I find strange is the smaller members of the same family are classed as vermin-----weasels , stoats and mink----all are beautiful looking and a joy to watch hunting, but they are controlled because they also eat pheasants and other ground nesting birds (as well as rats etc)

exactly the same as otters will do, only they will eat fish as well, yet they are protected?

I blame the Wind in the Willows for all this otter hugging
Thats a good point Kev, but there are two important words to remember, indigenous and endangered, if any of those animals fit both words they would soon be on the protected species list, just like the otter and the pine marten.

Cheers Alan
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by davelumb » Fri Apr 22 2016 16:27

The only danger otters are in is from being shot! :laughs:

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by Duncan Holmes » Fri Apr 22 2016 17:56

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
ibexis wrote:
Over the last couple of years I have been seeing more and more otters around my local area, including the Broads and other local much smaller non tidal rivers.
They are a beautiful animal to watch, on the one hand I am pleased they are making a return because as a child it was amazing for me to even catch a glimpse of one.
On the other however, it does concern me that the ones around my area seem totally oblivious to human contact, they seem to be growing up with no fear of humans at all.
I do wonder whether it is partly the extra protection they are being given because of their "endangered" status that is causing this apparent change in behaviour, i.e. no fear of anything.
I hope that as otter numbers stabilise to a sustainable level and young fish grow up being wary of the constant threat of being eaten by these apex predators things will settle back into a pattern that existed in days gone by.

Not wanting to be all doom and gloom though I'm not entirely sure if this will even truly happen as I don't believe there is full equilibrium with our waterways as can be evidenced by the River Authority's continued requirements to "top up" fish stocks all over the place due to pollution, illegal fishing and all the other pressures that affect our modern life.

Hopefully one day I will see this to be proven wrong.
what I find strange is the smaller members of the same family are classed as vermin-----weasels , stoats and mink----all are beautiful looking and a joy to watch hunting, but they are controlled because they also eat pheasants and other ground nesting birds (as well as rats etc)

exactly the same as otters will do, only they will eat fish as well, yet they are protected?

I blame the Wind in the Willows for all this otter hugging
Thats a good point Kev, but there are two important words to remember, indigenous and endangered, if any of those animals fit both words they would soon be on the protected species list, just like the otter and the pine marten.

Cheers Alan
But there lies the problem, try telling any angler in Norfolk that otters are endangered :roll: and I am sure its the same for other parts of the country too.

There are a number of native species that aren't considered endangered that I see considerably less often that I see an otter(s).

And not everyone is convinced that what have been released are indigenous either, despite what information the media/wildlife organisations/etc put in the public domain.
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Re: Otter trap??

Post by AndyFrost » Fri Apr 22 2016 18:10

Duncan Holmes wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
ibexis wrote:
Over the last couple of years I have been seeing more and more otters around my local area, including the Broads and other local much smaller non tidal rivers.
They are a beautiful animal to watch, on the one hand I am pleased they are making a return because as a child it was amazing for me to even catch a glimpse of one.
On the other however, it does concern me that the ones around my area seem totally oblivious to human contact, they seem to be growing up with no fear of humans at all.
I do wonder whether it is partly the extra protection they are being given because of their "endangered" status that is causing this apparent change in behaviour, i.e. no fear of anything.
I hope that as otter numbers stabilise to a sustainable level and young fish grow up being wary of the constant threat of being eaten by these apex predators things will settle back into a pattern that existed in days gone by.

Not wanting to be all doom and gloom though I'm not entirely sure if this will even truly happen as I don't believe there is full equilibrium with our waterways as can be evidenced by the River Authority's continued requirements to "top up" fish stocks all over the place due to pollution, illegal fishing and all the other pressures that affect our modern life.

Hopefully one day I will see this to be proven wrong.
what I find strange is the smaller members of the same family are classed as vermin-----weasels , stoats and mink----all are beautiful looking and a joy to watch hunting, but they are controlled because they also eat pheasants and other ground nesting birds (as well as rats etc)

exactly the same as otters will do, only they will eat fish as well, yet they are protected?

I blame the Wind in the Willows for all this otter hugging
Thats a good point Kev, but there are two important words to remember, indigenous and endangered, if any of those animals fit both words they would soon be on the protected species list, just like the otter and the pine marten.

Cheers Alan
But there lies the problem, try telling any angler in Norfolk that otters are endangered :roll: and I am sure its the same for other parts of the country too.

There are a number of native species that aren't considered endangered that I see considerably less often that I see an otter(s).

And not everyone is convinced that what have been released are indigenous either, despite what information the media/wildlife organisations/etc put in the public domain.
Spot on Duncan , but because it says otherwise on Google , the naive will continue to believe it.

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Sat Apr 23 2016 06:04

Duncan Holmes wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
ibexis wrote:
Over the last couple of years I have been seeing more and more otters around my local area, including the Broads and other local much smaller non tidal rivers.
They are a beautiful animal to watch, on the one hand I am pleased they are making a return because as a child it was amazing for me to even catch a glimpse of one.
On the other however, it does concern me that the ones around my area seem totally oblivious to human contact, they seem to be growing up with no fear of humans at all.
I do wonder whether it is partly the extra protection they are being given because of their "endangered" status that is causing this apparent change in behaviour, i.e. no fear of anything.
I hope that as otter numbers stabilise to a sustainable level and young fish grow up being wary of the constant threat of being eaten by these apex predators things will settle back into a pattern that existed in days gone by.

Not wanting to be all doom and gloom though I'm not entirely sure if this will even truly happen as I don't believe there is full equilibrium with our waterways as can be evidenced by the River Authority's continued requirements to "top up" fish stocks all over the place due to pollution, illegal fishing and all the other pressures that affect our modern life.

Hopefully one day I will see this to be proven wrong.
what I find strange is the smaller members of the same family are classed as vermin-----weasels , stoats and mink----all are beautiful looking and a joy to watch hunting, but they are controlled because they also eat pheasants and other ground nesting birds (as well as rats etc)

exactly the same as otters will do, only they will eat fish as well, yet they are protected?

I blame the Wind in the Willows for all this otter hugging
Thats a good point Kev, but there are two important words to remember, indigenous and endangered, if any of those animals fit both words they would soon be on the protected species list, just like the otter and the pine marten.

Cheers Alan
But there lies the problem, try telling any angler in Norfolk that otters are endangered :roll: and I am sure its the same for other parts of the country too.

There are a number of native species that aren't considered endangered that I see considerably less often that I see an otter(s).

And not everyone is convinced that what have been released are indigenous either, despite what information the media/wildlife organisations/etc put in the public domain.
You are quite right Duncan :wink: and the level of protection a species enjoys, shouldn't be at the cost of other species, such as the bittern in this case.
Now otter numbers are probably higher than they have been for hundreds of years, , maybe in the not to distant future, the right to shoot them may be possible.
If the released animals are not the indigenous lutra lutra species, can anyone suggest what they are and back it up with credible evidence rather than just saying thats its because they are not scared of dogs that don't chase them?
AndyFrost wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
ibexis wrote:
Over the last couple of years I have been seeing more and more otters around my local area, including the Broads and other local much smaller non tidal rivers.
They are a beautiful animal to watch, on the one hand I am pleased they are making a return because as a child it was amazing for me to even catch a glimpse of one.
On the other however, it does concern me that the ones around my area seem totally oblivious to human contact, they seem to be growing up with no fear of humans at all.
I do wonder whether it is partly the extra protection they are being given because of their "endangered" status that is causing this apparent change in behaviour, i.e. no fear of anything.
I hope that as otter numbers stabilise to a sustainable level and young fish grow up being wary of the constant threat of being eaten by these apex predators things will settle back into a pattern that existed in days gone by.

Not wanting to be all doom and gloom though I'm not entirely sure if this will even truly happen as I don't believe there is full equilibrium with our waterways as can be evidenced by the River Authority's continued requirements to "top up" fish stocks all over the place due to pollution, illegal fishing and all the other pressures that affect our modern life.

Hopefully one day I will see this to be proven wrong.
what I find strange is the smaller members of the same family are classed as vermin-----weasels , stoats and mink----all are beautiful looking and a joy to watch hunting, but they are controlled because they also eat pheasants and other ground nesting birds (as well as rats etc)

exactly the same as otters will do, only they will eat fish as well, yet they are protected?

I blame the Wind in the Willows for all this otter hugging
Thats a good point Kev, but there are two important words to remember, indigenous and endangered, if any of those animals fit both words they would soon be on the protected species list, just like the otter and the pine marten.

Cheers Alan
But there lies the problem, try telling any angler in Norfolk that otters are endangered :roll: and I am sure its the same for other parts of the country too.

There are a number of native species that aren't considered endangered that I see considerably less often that I see an otter(s).

And not everyone is convinced that what have been released are indigenous either, despite what information the media/wildlife organisations/etc put in the public domain.
Spot on Duncan , but because it says otherwise on Google , the naive will continue to believe it.

Andy.
You may think I am naive Andy, and in some ways maybe I am, but not often when it comes to this kind of thing because my opinion is an informed one, you on the other hand whose opinion is based purely on your observations in your little bit of Norfolk, are ignorant to the greater wide world as you type away under the shelter of your keyboard :laughs:

Cheers Alan
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity" Seneca, some Roman chap.

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Re: Otter trap??

Post by davelumb » Sat Apr 23 2016 08:13

Be careful if you meet Andy, Alan. He won't be hiding under a keyboard and Google won't be there to save you!

:boing:

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