Theoben

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AndyFrost
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Re: Theoben

Post by AndyFrost » Tue Mar 14 2017 16:28

Kev Berry wrote:

so I have to go out and buy a book to read your fairy tale? no chance :laughs: Daves version of things is much more interesting :thumbs: , not a very good defence saying read the book is it :roll:
so come on then roll it out to those who havnt got "the book", or cant you remember the story :laughs:
There's always two sides to a story , Karls , which is well documented in black and white , the course of events that actually happened.
Then there is Pinnochios bitter and somehow twisted version.
I'm in no hurry to get Lt .Columbo on the case , to see who is telling the truth.

Andy.
When I stared into his eyes , all I could see was Charles Manson.

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Re: Theoben

Post by Kev Berry » Tue Mar 14 2017 18:29

AndyFrost wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:

so I have to go out and buy a book to read your fairy tale? no chance :laughs: Daves version of things is much more interesting :thumbs: , not a very good defence saying read the book is it :roll:
so come on then roll it out to those who havnt got "the book", or cant you remember the story :laughs:
There's always two sides to a story , Karls , which is well documented in black and white , the course of events that actually happened.
Then there is Pinnochios bitter and somehow twisted version.
I'm in no hurry to get Lt .Columbo on the case , to see who is telling the truth.

Andy.
still not going to buy the book---and just because its in a book with him holding it dosnt mean its the truth does it?
Theres a well documented story in AT about a 17lb zander and a 38lb pike from the river---biggest load of b******s :laughs:

So where does this story of him taking the rod of a young lad and him claiming the glory come from then?

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Re: Theoben

Post by AndyFrost » Tue Mar 14 2017 19:00

From Pinnochio.

Andy.
When I stared into his eyes , all I could see was Charles Manson.

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Re: Theoben

Post by Kev Berry » Tue Mar 14 2017 19:36

AndyFrost wrote:
From Pinnochio.

Andy.
and why would he make such a story up?
Was he there? if not someone else must have started it

I am not seeing any good defence here, name calling and "read the book" dosnt quite cut to the chase

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Re: Theoben

Post by Andrew Croft » Tue Mar 14 2017 19:44

Why is it bothering you so much kev ? Do you think you or anyone else are owed an explanation :scratch:

if its bugging you so much go get the book and read it lol
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Re: Theoben

Post by Kev Berry » Tue Mar 14 2017 19:55

Andrew Croft wrote:
Why is it bothering you so much kev ? Do you think you or anyone else are owed an explanation :scratch:

if its bugging you so much go get the book and read it lol
Troll alert -- troll alert-- :pigs:

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Re: Theoben

Post by AndyFrost » Tue Mar 14 2017 19:58

1 "and why would he make such a story up? "
2 "Was he there? if not someone else must have started it"

1 Because that's just the type of person he is , afterall he's becoming a perfectionist at making stories up.

2 No he was not there.

Andy.
When I stared into his eyes , all I could see was Charles Manson.

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Andrew Croft
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Re: Theoben

Post by Andrew Croft » Tue Mar 14 2017 20:02

Kev Berry wrote:
Andrew Croft wrote:
Why is it bothering you so much kev ? Do you think you or anyone else are owed an explanation :scratch:

if its bugging you so much go get the book and read it lol
Troll alert -- troll alert-- :pigs:
that offended you ? Sensitve little fella aint ya :smile:
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Re: Theoben

Post by Kev Berry » Tue Mar 14 2017 20:47

Andrew Croft wrote:
Kev Berry wrote:
Andrew Croft wrote:
Why is it bothering you so much kev ? Do you think you or anyone else are owed an explanation :scratch:

if its bugging you so much go get the book and read it lol
Troll alert -- troll alert-- :pigs:
that offended you ? Sensitve little fella aint ya :smile:
where did I say it offended me?
just drawing attention to a (now delusional) troll lurking about :laughs:

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Re: Theoben

Post by Andrew Croft » Tue Mar 14 2017 20:52

:sleep:
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Re: Theoben

Post by Edward.P.A.C » Wed Mar 15 2017 03:55

Kev Berry wrote:
AndyFrost wrote:
From Pinnochio.

Andy.
and why would he make such a story up?
Was he there? if not someone else must have started it

I am not seeing any good defence here, name calling and "read the book" dosnt quite cut to the chase
Jealousy :shrug: , bitter and twisted personality :shrug: Pathological liar :shrug:
Thats because theres no defence needed, the truth doesn't require it... :wink:

I sense an odious little snake pulling strings in the background here.......get others to do his dirty work to deflect attention :wink:
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cookiesdaughtersdad
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Re: Theoben

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Wed Mar 15 2017 08:00

Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Personally I think cormorants, mink, otters and even seals are all fascinating creatures but all need to be controlled humanely and I dont hate a single one of them even though I may not like the consequences of their work.
f**k me that came round quicker than expected :laughs: :laughs:

Why would you put Otters in the same category as the other three, from what we have heard from you over the past few years Otter number are at a sustainable level and will naturally form a balance with ourtheir environment.

Now you are suggesting they need to be controlled. :scratch:
:giggle:
Dave, It's far better when you have something better to do like counting old footballs :roll:



Like playing chess, you have to wait for the move to present itself :grin:
That it did :laughs: check!

Duncan, I like chess as well and you have made the mistake of forgetting one of my moves :wink:
I have said on numerous occasions that the otter cannot eat its larder completely empty and so will find a balance with the environment it lives in.
I have also said that this balancing act if you like, may also be to the detriment of some other species such as the barbel in the Wensum and the highly protected species such as the bittern that no longer "booms" where it used to before the otters came were put back.
Do you remember me talking about the fact that the wensum barbel would once have been genetically unique but stockings from the Trent have certainly ended that.
So for conservation purposes of other species the otter may in the future be controlled.
Do you also remember me saying that fisheries that spend the money to put fences up should be allowed to remove them and or shoot them, both methods illegal at the moment, removing otters may be a waste of time as some individuals find scaling the fences easy.
In fact because fences are already in place, otters are already being controlled, other legal forms of control will come later I'm sure :wink:

Mate! :clap:

Cheers Alan
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Re: Theoben

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Wed Mar 15 2017 08:06

Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Not squidgers as well Ben :cry: next you will be saying magpies :laughs:
I'm sure Ben only wants to shoot the grey tree rats.
Image
Looks like a good excuse for a Wall :laughs:
And make the "greys" pay for it :laughs:

Interesting maps and shows the destructive powers on introducing alien species :sad:

Cheers Alan
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Re: Theoben

Post by Duncan Holmes » Wed Mar 15 2017 20:42

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Personally I think cormorants, mink, otters and even seals are all fascinating creatures but all need to be controlled humanely and I dont hate a single one of them even though I may not like the consequences of their work.
f**k me that came round quicker than expected :laughs: :laughs:

Why would you put Otters in the same category as the other three, from what we have heard from you over the past few years Otter number are at a sustainable level and will naturally form a balance with ourtheir environment.

Now you are suggesting they need to be controlled. :scratch:
:giggle:
Dave, It's far better when you have something better to do like counting old footballs :roll:



Like playing chess, you have to wait for the move to present itself :grin:
That it did :laughs: check!

Duncan, I like chess as well and you have made the mistake of forgetting one of my moves :wink:
I have said on numerous occasions that the otter cannot eat its larder completely empty and so will find a balance with the environment it lives in.
I have also said that this balancing act if you like, may also be to the detriment of some other species such as the barbel in the Wensum and the highly protected species such as the bittern that no longer "booms" where it used to before the otters came were put back.
Do you remember me talking about the fact that the wensum barbel would once have been genetically unique but stockings from the Trent have certainly ended that.
So for conservation purposes of other species the otter may in the future be controlled.
Do you also remember me saying that fisheries that spend the money to put fences up should be allowed to remove them and or shoot them, both methods illegal at the moment, removing otters may be a waste of time as some individuals find scaling the fences easy.
In fact because fences are already in place, otters are already being controlled, other legal forms of control will come later I'm sure :wink:

Mate! :clap:

Cheers Alan
Not quite yet...... :wink:

I used the term, OUR environment because that is actually what it became once we started "managing" it, the environment will never be THEIR environment unless something catastrophic happens to the human species.

The question I asked is why you would group otters alongside 3 invasive and highly destructive species within a discussion on culling?

Those other species are never likely to find a natural balance and need to be controlled to protect the environment.

Your answer doesn't really cover that,

Your move. :grin:
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Re: Theoben

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Thu Mar 16 2017 09:40

Duncan Holmes wrote:

Not quite yet...... :wink:

I used the term, OUR environment because that is actually what it became once we started "managing" it, the environment will never be THEIR environment unless something catastrophic happens to the human species.

The question I asked is why you would group otters alongside 3 invasive and highly destructive species within a discussion on culling?

Those other species are never likely to find a natural balance and need to be controlled to protect the environment.

Your answer doesn't really cover that,

Your move. :grin:
Now I like this game :thumbs:

The reason I changed " ours" to "theirs" is that although I totally agree with you in that we have changed the environment so much, we now have to manage it and learn to do whats best, we still have lots to learn and still make mistakes, often acting in self serving ways, the otter will have no comprehension to all that and so continue to live in "their" environment one which is different to what we think it should be.

All of those species can find a natural balance with their environment, but like the otter it may be detrimental to other species such as the water vole from mink predation. The mink is the only one of those I would choose to eradicate if it was possible even if I do think they are smart critters.

Near where I live, there used to be the biggest colony of cormorants in the UK, their numbers have since dropped, indicating a balance forming.
Their move inland happened from about the time of the demise of the eel, coincidence?, I think not, the majority of eels are said to remain in estuaries where the pickings are good and the species of cormorant we see is sometimes referred to as the "estuarine cormorant" for that reason.
The effects that cormorant predation will have upon a water will vary and if the management of a fishery think they are having a severe adverse effect then they can be controlled to some extent them with a suitable weapon, how effective this will be I dont know unless lots of fisheries nationally take part.
I do wish more people would see the birds simply as they are and control them simply for the need of control and not with hate.
My form of control at the marina is simply clapping my hands, the birds seem very sensitive and reactive to noise and so I wonder the effect of crow scarers to protect a water when anglers are not there?

Now seals, common seals are our most likely inland visitor and without googling I would estimate they could take upto 30 lbs of fish in a day, although removing them alive would be the best option I would guess a suitable gun would be far cheaper.
Given their size they shouldn't be too hard to find and being common by name and common by nature the odd individual shot will be no loss to the species.

The reason I put all 4 species together (there are more I could mention) was that in my opinion we have forced the task of looking after the environment upon ourselves often because of our own actions.
The daft thing is that our control is attempting to put things back to how they were, we need to prop some species up which may ultimately require the :guns: for others or simply a fence.
Work is needed from the bottom up such as restoring flow levels to rivers and reducing run off, its a massive subject :eek:
Some anglers will selfishly want their needs met to the expense of all other species without a care to the bigger picture, but if this bigger picture is controlled or managed properly, angling will have to take a hit as this unnatural environment we now find ourselves in has created so many of the big fish that adorn our albums and as I once said, a 9lb barbel will again be a big fish.

Knight takes Queen :grin:

Cheers Alan
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Re: Theoben

Post by Rik W » Thu Mar 16 2017 13:52

Mike J wrote:
Hi Ben,
Ive managed rivers and lakes and also controlled cormorants.

Lets start from the beginning
You say your Club has appointed you as a Bailiff, yet you refer the the Police as filth. :shrug:
A good working relationship with your local Police is essential if you ever have trouble with lawbreakers during your bailiffing duties, so you attitude towards our law enforcement agencies will need to be readjusted pdq.

The most common places the birds choose to dry out are usually beyond air rifle range.
They can be ambushed when they surface after a dive but the bird is swimming which makes the head ian almost impossible target to hit with a rifle.

Killing any living thing isnt "a party" and shouldn't be referred to as such, not unless your wish is to provide ammunition for the antis who WILL be watching for the slightest indiscretion on your behalf when they realise that you or others are culling the birds.

Your club must hold a valid licence to cull cormorants, on the licence it will state the number allowed to be culled and it will not be many, it could be as low as 5.
Your reference to a "party" suggests you may not be the only 'legally authorised person' culling the birds?
If the culling is being observed by non members you and whoever else is doing it will need to liase regulary inorder to ensure your Club does not exceed its cull quota. If the quota is exceeded the licence may not be renewed and/or you could find your Club being prosecuted by one of the bird/animal protection societies.

Hope this helps.
Spot on advice from someone who clearly knows the subject matter.

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Re: Theoben

Post by AndyFrost » Thu Mar 16 2017 16:38

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Their move inland happened from about the time of the demise of the eel, coincidence?,

Cheers Alan
I would say it had more to do with the decline of Sea fish stocks , I can well remember times when the seas all around our coast were abundant with fish , and Cormorants were a rare sight inland. I can't see them retuning back to sea just yet what with record numbers of Seals in the North Sea......coincidence ?

Andy.
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Re: Theoben

Post by pfluger » Thu Mar 16 2017 17:54

Not a question of them 'returning to sea'. Most inland cormorants are the sinensis variant. They are a freshwater bird that nests in trees and and eats freshwater fish. They came from mainland Europe in the 1980s after a population explosion caused by increased protection.

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Re: Theoben

Post by Kev Berry » Thu Mar 16 2017 18:51

pfluger wrote:
Not a question of them 'returning to sea'. Most inland cormorants are the sinensis variant. They are a freshwater bird that nests in trees and and eats freshwater fish. They came from mainland Europe in the 1980s after a population explosion caused by increased protection.
too many people are listening to the tree huggers and just wont accept that the cormorants plundering our inland waters have not come from the seaside cos theres no fish left.
If that were the case why havnt the gannets, puffins and all the other coastal birds come inland?

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Re: Theoben

Post by Duncan Holmes » Thu Mar 16 2017 18:57

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:

Knight takes Queen :grin:

Cheers Alan
Oi, I have already had both your knights, you leave queenie alone. :grin:
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Re: Theoben

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad » Thu Mar 16 2017 21:27

Duncan Holmes wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:

Knight takes Queen :grin:

Cheers Alan
Oi, I have already had both your knights, you leave queenie alone. :grin:
:oops: I could see them behind your virtual pint of mild :gulp: right then, were not on the clock are we? :laughs:

Cheers Alan
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Re: Theoben

Post by Duncan Holmes » Fri Mar 17 2017 07:26

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:
Duncan Holmes wrote:
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote:

Knight takes Queen :grin:

Cheers Alan
Oi, I have already had both your knights, you leave queenie alone. :grin:
:oops: I could see them behind your virtual pint of mild :gulp: right then, were not on the clock are we? :laughs:

Cheers Alan
:laughs: :laughs:
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Re: Theoben

Post by Metalscobes666 » Mon Sep 11 2017 10:58

Ok where to start, first you'll need a firearms certificate because you'll need a shotgun because your air rifle isn’t going to be an effective tool for the job that's coming from years of shooting pistols rifles shotguns and even air rifles. In an ideal environment you’d want to use a decent suppressed rifle but the local authorities will have kittens if you tell them you’re going to be sending lead up into the air because you can’t guarantee the round will stay on the property you have permission to shoot and then there's the chances of ricochets so generally you’re going to be sticking to a shotgun unless you can 100% guarantee you will be shooting downward into the ground this means having a big hill you can safely shoot from down onto the cormorants.

Secondly you'll need somewhere to secure your firearms that means having the police round to do an inspection that your keeping your weapons secure there's no way round this breaking this step is a go to jail offence so don’t be silly follow the law!

Third you'll need permission to cull the birds preferably something in writing this keeps you on the right side of the law. You'll need a licence from DEFRA this is a difficult process to apply for as they only give out so many licences per area, if you’re like me in Northern Ireland then the restrictions are even worse you have a three month window to cull them and only two licences per fishery are given out so it’s a job applying and actually getting legal permission to cull them.

Fourth you will need to be able to recover any birds you cull no one wants to see remains of animals all over the place this also includes disposal of the remains I've access to a incinerator this cleanly disposes the remains.

Having shot cormorants they are a big old lump of a bird so use the appropriate ammunition a decent wildfowling load is about right your wanting to dispatch them quickly this will do the job. Sadly from experience you can plug away at these birds and within months the numbers will be back up as more seem to just fill the void. When I'm involved in a shoot it’s a coordinated effort the fishery is closed to the public by owner’s permission then were generally in a small team shooting the birds at roost and destroying nests is for me a morning activity then clean up the area taking away nests and places for these birds to settle is part of the culling process if you make the area you have permission to cull as unattractive to cormorants as possible it helps. Doing this in the morning and removing the birds off site quickly keeps the risk of freaking out the general public at a minimum, don’t advertise on social media you plan to do a cull as it could attract the antis.

I’d advise strongly that you get in-touch with a local shooting club who can guide you how's best to do this, I cannot emphasise enough that you stay within legal guidelines firearms are not toys and running about in public waving them could get you shot by the police. As a courtesy I tend to advise police of locations and numbers when I organise a group shoot you don’t have to do this but it pays to keep the law on side.

Not I've covered all bases but if you have questions ask.
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