Return of the Pike Pool (103) John Carver

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Return of the Pike Pool (103) John Carver

Post by Jason Skilton »

So we have the Return of the Jedi, Return of the King and Return of the Dead.....but for the Pitsters, we have Return of the Pool, and we have a treat in stall for you from one of our own Chub Creek aka John Carver.

So grab a cuppa and a slice of lemon drizzle cake and enjoy! :thumbs:

https://thepikepool.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... baits.html
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Iain Gillies »

Absolutely superb article by John and certainly a few things I can take away to improve my own technique. Many thanks to all involved with producing and sharing this article.
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by zodiac »

A good read that, thanks Jason, and of course, John.
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by davelumb »

Good stuff. :thumbs:

I was interested that the casting technique I was taught many moons ago is pretty much like John's. :smile:
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by suffolk si »

Very informative reading👍👍
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Mattjb »

Good to see the Pool is back! I had a quick read at work,interesting stuff and some tips which will come in handy for a good few of us no doubt.Nice one John and Jase.
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Jason Skilton »

zodiac wrote: Wed May 20 2020 14:40 -
A good read that, thanks Jason, and of course, John.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. John did the hard bit by putting fingers to keyboard :thumbs:
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Danoutdoors »

Top stuff 👍
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Stewlaws »

Really interesting... Good article John/jase👌
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by phil.c »

Very interesting read that.

All I need now is a water big enough to use it.. :grin:
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by alan behenna »

Well Done Gentlemen!

:thumbs:
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Dave Horton »

Woohooo - nice one men! I’m sat trying to out smart catfish and also trying to find my way around a new phone whilst punctuating both of them with going through my notes on My online trading course and this will be.
(A welcome interlude later face)
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by DaveGreenwood »

Good read thanks :thumbs:
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Creek Chub »

Thanks for the kind words guys, always nice to get good feedback A big thanks to Jason who had to lay it out.
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by mattiethomp »

Great read just the info i was after :woot:
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Mynki »

I enjoyed reading that too. Thanks for posting.
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Jason Skilton »

Creek Chub wrote: Thu May 21 2020 09:08 -
Thanks for the kind words guys, always nice to get good feedback A big thanks to Jason who had to lay it out.
:thumbs:
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Chris Hammond »

That's arguably the best technical piece we,'ve ever had on the Pool. A superbly written piece John!

A couple of questions if I may?

You mention the reel of choice being a big pit. From my sea fishing and general distance casting I have become convinced that I can cast considerably further with a standard reel than a big pit. I think this might be related to small hands and not particularly strong wrists. Equally I'm almost certain that I can cast further with a lighter carp rod and a three ounce lead than I can with a beach caster and five ounce lead. Again I suspect it is simply because I can maintain control over the lighter gear. Can you offer any comment on that?

Secondly I feel I can never really compress a rod to its optimum with an overhead thump as there just isn't enough of an arc to really wind it up. With a carp/pike rod I will sort of the throw the lead behind me to begin the compression which seems to give me much better distance. I think that's the beginning of the same kind of physics involved with a pendulum cast, which i've yet to learn. Again could you comment?

One thing I have long since meant to try is setting a length of plastic guttering up at a forty five degree angle or slope behind me on the beach as a kind of launch platform as I have no confidence in laying my tackle on the ground for an off the ground cast.

Fabulous to see the Pool up and running again. Well done John and Jason. Top notch!

Ps I once "blew up" a Des Taylor Mayer rod of 3lbs Tc on a French carp trip. Not an experience I would like to repeat! ☹
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Mickod »

Really interesting read,and will definitely improve my distance if I can put it all together properly,thanks to all involved 👌👌
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Creek Chub »

Chris Hammond wrote: Thu May 21 2020 18:56 -
That's arguably the best technical piece we,'ve ever had on the Pool. A superbly written piece John!

A couple of questions if I may?

You mention the reel of choice being a big pit. From my sea fishing and general distance casting I have become convinced that I can cast considerably further with a standard reel than a big pit. I think this might be related to small hands and not particularly strong wrists. Equally I'm almost certain that I can cast further with a lighter carp rod and a three ounce lead than I can with a beach caster and five ounce lead. Again I suspect it is simply because I can maintain control over the lighter gear. Can you offer any comment on that?

Secondly I feel I can never really compress a rod to its optimum with an overhead thump as there just isn't enough of an arc to really wind it up. With a carp/pike rod I will sort of the throw the lead behind me to begin the compression which seems to give me much better distance. I think that's the beginning of the same kind of physics involved with a pendulum cast, which i've yet to learn. Again could you comment?

One thing I have long since meant to try is setting a length of plastic guttering up at a forty five degree angle or slope behind me on the beach as a kind of launch platform as I have no confidence in laying my tackle on the ground for an off the ground cast.

Fabulous to see the Pool up and running again. Well done John and Jason. Top notch!

Ps I once "blew up" a Des Taylor Mayer rod of 3lbs Tc on a French carp trip. Not an experience I would like to repeat! ☹
Hi Chris, firstly thank you for your kind comments, much appreciated. With regard to the size of the reel and it’s spool, I think if you are using a line with a diameter between .25 and .30mm there is very little difference in the distance achieved between a big pit and say a 8000/10000 Shimano baitrunner type reel. However once you move up to lines with a diameter of .33, .35 or more the bigger reel does start to out perform more normal size reels especially as your ability to cast further improves. There were several comparison tests done in various carp magazines back when the so called big pits nee sea reels started to make an impact, these came in at a time when carp anglers were targeting bigger waters and were using heavier ( thicker) lines. The tests always seemed to favour the bigger reels although to be fair not by massive amounts, however when the mag’s started to bring in the big hitters of the carp world, Frank Warwick and Mark Hutchinson, guys who could cast carp tackle over 200 yards the gap did widen. I also feel that heavy shock leaders don’t sit well on smaller spooled reels and this can lead to frap ups.
With regard to compressing the rod, the cast I use is not really an overhead thump but an extended arc overhead cast using both body rotation and body weight, unfortunately Jason couldn’t include all the photos I sent and one of those not included showed the length of drop between the tip ring and spigot/overfit plus how I hold the reel with only my little finger behind the stem. The length of drop (half the length of the rod)being very important to create compression, along with the the arms extended above your head and the stepping and turning into the cast, this type of overhead cast is capable of putting a lead over 220 meters with an off the shelf carp casting rod.
Lastly with regard to the guttering suggestion if you read Jim Gibbinson’s excellent book Gravel Pit Carp written back in 1999 and read the distance fishing chapter you will see a drawing of a piece gutting propped up at an angle with the end tackle sitting at the bottom, Jim very kindly credited me with the idea as I had written about it several years before in the Big Carp magazine.
Thank you again for comments.
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by JoeNickel »

Absolutely brilliant article! I'm now thinking which of my venues it'll make a difference on, come Oct... 

Normally I'm hugely excited by the chance to browse for new rods, but will have to wait until the 'Rona blows over and finances are more robust  :cry:
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Ben »

Nice work lads, really pleased you’ve taken the time to do this 👍🏼
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Chris Hammond »

Creek Chub wrote: Thu May 21 2020 20:29 -
Chris Hammond wrote: Thu May 21 2020 18:56 -
That's arguably the best technical piece we,'ve ever had on the Pool. A superbly written piece John!

A couple of questions if I may?

You mention the reel of choice being a big pit. From my sea fishing and general distance casting I have become convinced that I can cast considerably further with a standard reel than a big pit. I think this might be related to small hands and not particularly strong wrists. Equally I'm almost certain that I can cast further with a lighter carp rod and a three ounce lead than I can with a beach caster and five ounce lead. Again I suspect it is simply because I can maintain control over the lighter gear. Can you offer any comment on that?

Secondly I feel I can never really compress a rod to its optimum with an overhead thump as there just isn't enough of an arc to really wind it up. With a carp/pike rod I will sort of the throw the lead behind me to begin the compression which seems to give me much better distance. I think that's the beginning of the same kind of physics involved with a pendulum cast, which i've yet to learn. Again could you comment?

One thing I have long since meant to try is setting a length of plastic guttering up at a forty five degree angle or slope behind me on the beach as a kind of launch platform as I have no confidence in laying my tackle on the ground for an off the ground cast.

Fabulous to see the Pool up and running again. Well done John and Jason. Top notch!

Ps I once "blew up" a Des Taylor Mayer rod of 3lbs Tc on a French carp trip. Not an experience I would like to repeat! ☹
Hi Chris, firstly thank you for your kind comments, much appreciated. With regard to the size of the reel and it’s spool, I think if you are using a line with a diameter between .25 and .30mm there is very little difference in the distance achieved between a big pit and say a 8000/10000 Shimano baitrunner type reel. However once you move up to lines with a diameter of .33, .35 or more the bigger reel does start to out perform more normal size reels especially as your ability to cast further improves. There were several comparison tests done in various carp magazines back when the so called big pits nee sea reels started to make an impact, these came in at a time when carp anglers were targeting bigger waters and were using heavier ( thicker) lines. The tests always seemed to favour the bigger reels although to be fair not by massive amounts, however when the mag’s started to bring in the big hitters of the carp world, Frank Warwick and Mark Hutchinson, guys who could cast carp tackle over 200 yards the gap did widen. I also feel that heavy shock leaders don’t sit well on smaller spooled reels and this can lead to frap ups.
With regard to compressing the rod, the cast I use is not really an overhead thump but an extended arc overhead cast using both body rotation and body weight, unfortunately Jason couldn’t include all the photos I sent and one of those not included showed the length of drop between the tip ring and spigot/overfit plus how I hold the reel with only my little finger behind the stem. The length of drop (half the length of the rod)being very important to create compression, along with the the arms extended above your head and the stepping and turning into the cast, this type of overhead cast is capable of putting a lead over 220 meters with an off the shelf carp casting rod.
Lastly with regard to the guttering suggestion if you read Jim Gibbinson’s excellent book Gravel Pit Carp written back in 1999 and read the distance fishing chapter you will see a drawing of a piece gutting propped up at an angle with the end tackle sitting at the bottom, Jim very kindly credited me with the idea as I had written about it several years before in the Big Carp magazine.
Thank you again for comments.
Thanks John that makes sense. I hadn't considered line diameters. Like others your article has inspired me to think about improving my casting distance. In my case it will be beach fishing though as piking nowadays for me is mostly river and drain fishing. 👍
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Bucks Andy »

An excellent read...

Having gone down a similar route to try and get extra distance I eventually ( after a lot of playing about ) came up with this..
Load a spool with only 120 yards of 50lb braid tied to the backing.. PVA the lead to the bait.. now the rod I was using was a 6lb tc Spod rod. After casting simply find the end of the braid cut it and thread it onto the rod you want to use.
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by suffolk si »

Casting the distance not a major problem for me, setting hooks( especially with mono) major ballache!
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Biggthepool »

Bucks Andy wrote: Fri May 22 2020 15:02 -
An excellent read...

Having gone down a similar route to try and get extra distance I eventually ( after a lot of playing about ) came up with this..
Load a spool with only 120 yards of 50lb braid tied to the backing.. PVA the lead to the bait.. now the rod I was using was a 6lb tc Spod rod. After casting simply find the end of the braid cut it and thread it onto the rod you want to use.
Are you feeling ok Andy ? Or was this a joke ?
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Bucks Andy »

Biggthepool wrote: Fri May 22 2020 22:48 -
Bucks Andy wrote: Fri May 22 2020 15:02 -
An excellent read...

Having gone down a similar route to try and get extra distance I eventually ( after a lot of playing about ) came up with this..
Load a spool with only 120 yards of 50lb braid tied to the backing.. PVA the lead to the bait.. now the rod I was using was a 6lb tc Spod rod. After casting simply find the end of the braid cut it and thread it onto the rod you want to use.
Are you feeling ok Andy ? Or was this a joke ?
No joke
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by phil.c »

Biggthepool wrote: Fri May 22 2020 22:48 -
Bucks Andy wrote: Fri May 22 2020 15:02 -
An excellent read...

Having gone down a similar route to try and get extra distance I eventually ( after a lot of playing about ) came up with this..
Load a spool with only 120 yards of 50lb braid tied to the backing.. PVA the lead to the bait.. now the rod I was using was a 6lb tc Spod rod. After casting simply find the end of the braid cut it and thread it onto the rod you want to use.
Are you feeling ok Andy ? Or was this a joke ?
What Andy was saying is that he casts out and as he only has 120yds of braid on that reel, he can then find the end where it's tied to the backing and cut that..

Then tie it on to the rod and reel he is using for the fishing..

Although at first glance read as if he just cuts the braid.. :laughs:
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by RAB-HENDO »

Good reading John👍🏻
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Re: Return of the Pike Pool

Post by Creek Chub »

suffolk si wrote: Fri May 22 2020 16:14 -
Casting the distance not a major problem for me, setting hooks( especially with mono) major ballache!
The line I use is Xzoga Busterlon (I get it from Tasmania) it was shown to me by two friends who used to go big game fishing in Australia on a fairly regular basis. It is very popular with charter boat skippers albeit in heavier breaking strains. It is pre-stretched as I mentioned and therefore helps with bite indication at range, it also helps with contact at range i.e. setting hooks, I honestly have never felt it a problem Si. Pre-stretched lines have had a bad press at times but Busterlon or Rubylon are in a different league to most pre-stretched lines, knot strength, abrasion resistance and breaking strain are all excellent and even impact strength is good, these lines are used in some pretty hostile situations. As I said I use it in 25lb bs and that’s what it breaks at, only downsides are it is quite expensive (for mono) and you have to send away for it therefore postage is high and there is a slight time delay in delivery.
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