Worm hooks for eels

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Worm hooks for eels

Post by davelumb »

I don't know why (probably influenced by the John Sidley eel hook - a modified Jack Hilton carp hook which was in turn a modified salmon hook IIRC) I've usually used longish shanked hooks for worm baits when I use short shanks for deads.

What hooks are other eelers using?
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by John Milford »

YDRC :lumby: :thumbs:

Jack Hilton originally shortened the shank and solder-blobbed Partridge low water salmon hooks. :pipe:
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by davelumb »

John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 12:17 -
YDRC :lumby: :thumbs:

Jack Hilton originally shortened the shank and solder-blobbed Partridge low water salmon hooks. :pipe:
Thought so. :thumbs:
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by stubbojo »

davelumb wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 11:57 -
I don't know why (probably influenced by the John Sidley eel hook - a modified Jack Hilton carp hook which was in turn a modified salmon hook IIRC) I've usually used longish shanked hooks for worm baits when I use short shanks for deads.

What hooks are other eelers using?
you have just reminded me , i have a box of eel hooks ,well it says that on the box i will dig them out to show
think there quite old ...... :thumbs:
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by suffolk si »

A pair of size six trebles caught plenty of the bloody things for me this year🀣
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by John Milford »

Slightly off topic, but relevent and interesting.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0716301513
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by davelumb »

John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 19:57 -
Slightly off topic, but relevent and interesting.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0716301513
Hmmm. Small hooks seem best.
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by Mike J »

John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 12:17 -
YDRC :lumby: :thumbs:

Jack Hilton originally shortened the shank and solder-blobbed Partridge low water salmon hooks. :pipe:


Ive still got some Jack Hilton carp hooks around and they seem no different to a LWS hook.
Not a carper, just added to my bag (justin) while loitering in Alan Brown's back in the day,

Dave
If you fancy trying a circle Im happy to send you some?

.
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by OLDESOX »

davelumb wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 20:22 -
John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 19:57 -
Slightly off topic, but relevent and interesting.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0716301513
Hmmm. Small hooks seem best.
john sidley hook sizes not that small dave? saves deep hooking maybe
retired so time to smell the roses.
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by davelumb »

Mike J wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 04:48 -
John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 12:17 -
YDRC :lumby: :thumbs:

Jack Hilton originally shortened the shank and solder-blobbed Partridge low water salmon hooks. :pipe:


Ive still got some Jack Hilton carp hooks around and they seem no different to a LWS hook.
Not a carper, just added to my bag (justin) while loitering in Alan Brown's back in the day,

Dave
If you fancy trying a circle Im happy to send you some?

.
I never really liked the Hilton/Sidley hooks for some reason and used Drennan's back in the day. Might give Super Specialists a try.

I've thought about trying circles, Mike, but the sizes confuse me as they are nothing like J hook sizes from my experience. I have some but they have offset points so I've not tried them yet. I'd probably strike and miss anyway...
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by Mike J »

DL I've thought about trying circles, Mike, but the sizes confuse me as they are nothing like J hook sizes from my experience. I have some but they have offset points so I've not tried them yet. I'd probably strike and miss anyway...[/quote]


I agree the hook sizes are confusing, it is why I always use Eagle Claw.
Forgetting the bait for a moment what width hook gape do you think will work best for eels? I would guess something around 1/4" which is the gape of a size 4 E702 Black Circle.
Ive never fished worms on a circle so a bit of experimental fishing is probably needed but thats not what you want on a difficult water. Something like threading the worm onto a soft thread and tieing to the hook bend will certainly work, or those maggot clips Ive seen online?

Any offset is easy to remove with pliers, if yours dont strighten let me know.

:handshake.
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by davelumb »

Mike J wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 11:48 -
DL I've thought about trying circles, Mike, but the sizes confuse me as they are nothing like J hook sizes from my experience. I have some but they have offset points so I've not tried them yet. I'd probably strike and miss anyway...

I agree the hook sizes are confusing, it is why I always use Eagle Claw.
Forgetting the bait for a moment what width hook gape do you think will work best for eels? I would guess something around 1/4" which is the gape of a size 4 E702 Black Circle.
Ive never fished worms on a circle so a bit of experimental fishing is probably needed but thats not what you want on a difficult water. Something like threading the worm onto a soft thread and tieing to the hook bend will certainly work, or those maggot clips Ive seen online?

Any offset is easy to remove with pliers, if yours dont strighten let me know.

:handshake.
[/quote]

I've thought about taking the offset out. I'll give it a try. :thumbs:

I've been using Varivas Semi-circles in 2 and 4 for bunches of dendrobenas for the last few years, but gave an Owner C-5X a try last time and did OK. Which is what's got me thinking.

I've caught one eel (a 4 pounder when catting :roll: ) using a maggot clip and a load of dendros, but it resulted in a lot of nibbled worms and missed strikes before I connected.

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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by Steve Dennington »

davelumb wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 08:27 -
Mike J wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 04:48 -
John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 12:17 -
YDRC :lumby: :thumbs:

Jack Hilton originally shortened the shank and solder-blobbed Partridge low water salmon hooks. :pipe:


Ive still got some Jack Hilton carp hooks around and they seem no different to a LWS hook.
Not a carper, just added to my bag (justin) while loitering in Alan Brown's back in the day,

Dave
If you fancy trying a circle Im happy to send you some?

.
I never really liked the Hilton/Sidley hooks for some reason and used Drennan's back in the day. Might give Super Specialists a try.

I've thought about trying circles, Mike, but the sizes confuse me as they are nothing like J hook sizes from my experience. I have some but they have offset points so I've not tried them yet. I'd probably strike and miss anyway...
I'd either straighten or bin the offset ones, Dave. They'll deep hook, which defeats the object.

I've never used them for eels, but I'd imagine that they would be effective for safe hooking/unhooking though and you can safely remove the barb to make it even easier. Resisting the strike is tough though!
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by davelumb »

Steve Dennington wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 12:12 -
davelumb wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 08:27 -
Mike J wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 04:48 -
John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 12:17 -
YDRC :lumby: :thumbs:

Jack Hilton originally shortened the shank and solder-blobbed Partridge low water salmon hooks. :pipe:


Ive still got some Jack Hilton carp hooks around and they seem no different to a LWS hook.
Not a carper, just added to my bag (justin) while loitering in Alan Brown's back in the day,

Dave
If you fancy trying a circle Im happy to send you some?

.
I never really liked the Hilton/Sidley hooks for some reason and used Drennan's back in the day. Might give Super Specialists a try.

I've thought about trying circles, Mike, but the sizes confuse me as they are nothing like J hook sizes from my experience. I have some but they have offset points so I've not tried them yet. I'd probably strike and miss anyway...
I'd either straighten or bin the offset ones, Dave. They'll deep hook, which defeats the object.

I've never used them for eels, but I'd imagine that they would be effective for safe hooking/unhooking though and you can safely remove the barb to make it even easier. Resisting the strike is tough though!
The offset is why I've never used the circles. In theory circles should be ideal for eels. Out with the pliers!
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by John Milford »

Mike J wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 04:48 -
John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 12:17 -
YDRC :lumby: :thumbs:

Jack Hilton originally shortened the shank and solder-blobbed Partridge low water salmon hooks. :pipe:

Ive still got some Jack Hilton carp hooks around and they seem no different to a LWS hook.
Not a carper, just added to my bag (justin) while loitering in Alan Brown's back in the day,

.
Here they are for comparison Mike. I have some packets of JH Z1s somewhere.

I got them during a visit to the Partridge factory with Chris Leibbrandt, back in the 80s. I forget exactly how that arose, but it was fascinating being shown around by Alan Bramley. The company (and hooks) were never quite the same after the Bramley's sold the company to Mustad in the 1990s.

New_lw_singles_N2_1024x1024~2.JPG

'Eel hooks' were traditionally much longer in the shank than other patterns Lumby. Bearing in mind that many historical designs were often the result of very pragmatic thought, have you ever tried really long shank hooks?

It strikes me that very many practical ideas are 'lost' and re-learned over and over in angling.

(The only snag is that some 'historical' considerations were necessary to compensate for inadequacies elsewhere - like fragile gut hook lengths, so it is possible that the use of very long shanked hooks was just to avoid bite-offs? :shrug: ).
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by davelumb »

John Milford wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 12:39 -
Mike J wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 04:48 -
John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 12:17 -
YDRC :lumby: :thumbs:

Jack Hilton originally shortened the shank and solder-blobbed Partridge low water salmon hooks. :pipe:

Ive still got some Jack Hilton carp hooks around and they seem no different to a LWS hook.
Not a carper, just added to my bag (justin) while loitering in Alan Brown's back in the day,

.
Here they are for comparison Mike. I have some packets of JH Z1s somewhere.

I got them during a visit to the Partridge factory with Chris Leibbrandt, back in the 80s. I forget exactly how that arose, but it was fascinating being shown around by Alan Bramley. The company (and hooks) were never quite the same after the Bramley's sold the company to Mustad in the 1990s.


New_lw_singles_N2_1024x1024~2.JPG


'Eel hooks' were traditionally much longer in the shank than other patterns Lumby. Bearing in mind that many historical designs were often the result of very pragmatic thought, have you ever tried really long shank hooks?

It strikes me that very many practical ideas are 'lost' and re-learned over and over in angling.

(The only snag is that some 'historical' considerations were necessary to compensate for inadequacies elsewhere - like fragile gut hook lengths, so it is possible that the use of very long shanked hooks was just to avoid bite-offs? :shrug: ).
Yes, I remember very long shanked ell hooks. Hadn't though they might have been to prevent bite-offs. :thumbs:

As for innovations. The Sidley hooks with the 'bait holding' barbs on the shank never seemed to actually hold the bait!
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by Mike J »

Here's mine John
Slightly longer shank than yours but not as long as the LWS.

47169EF2-E838-41DB-AFA8-F1FF6111EE1E.jpeg

A real bit of carp and fishing history, I suppose they should be in a carp fishing museum or collection rather than an old pikers hook drawer?

.
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by John Milford »

Mike J wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 16:37 -
Here's mine John
Slightly longer shank than yours but not as long as the LWS.


47169EF2-E838-41DB-AFA8-F1FF6111EE1E.jpeg


A real bit of carp and fishing history, I suppose they should be in a carp fishing museum or collection rather than an old pikers hook drawer?

.
:cool:

I'm fairly sure yours will be Z1s too Mike, bought in bulk from Partridge and repackaged by the retailer.

There was bound to have been some exclusivity between Jack Hilton and Partridge over his endorsement.
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by stubbojo »

just a guess really , do you think the older hooks with the longer shanks were perceived to hold a large bunch of worms ..up the shank
and maybe a dead bait type hook ....somebodys thought about it way back ...still looking for that box of eel hooks
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by stubbojo »

Mike J wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 16:37 -
Here's mine John
Slightly longer shank than yours but not as long as the LWS.


47169EF2-E838-41DB-AFA8-F1FF6111EE1E.jpeg


A real bit of carp and fishing history, I suppose they should be in a carp fishing museum or collection rather than an old pikers hook drawer?

.
would work for perch mike ...about the right size
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by stubbojo »

these hooks only catch eels ....you cant argue with that it says it on the box
first time i have opened these and there is 27 missing so somebody had a go using them , and one hook in the box still had a bit of old looking line but not nylon by the looks of it.
think there a size 4 hook anybody with info , or have you ever used these type ,they have a strange largish loop on the end of the shank :shrug:
boxed eel hooks 001.JPG
boxed eel hooks 001.JPG
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by davelumb »

stubbojo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 19:59 -
these hooks only catch eels ....you cant argue with that it says it on the box
first time i have opened these and there is 27 missing so somebody had a go using them , and one hook in the box still had a bit of old looking line but not nylon by the looks of it.
think there a size 4 hook anybody with info , or have you ever used these type ,they have a strange largish loop on the end of the shank :shrug: boxed eel hooks 001.JPGboxed eel hooks 001.JPG
:cool:
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by stubbojo »

John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 19:57 -
Slightly off topic, but relevent and interesting.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0716301513
you would think bigger hooks would prevent deeper hookings , bite detection is the factor when eel fishing , like pike eels can swallow baits pretty fast.
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by John Milford »

stubbojo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 19:59 -
these hooks only catch eels ....you cant argue with that it says it on the box
first time i have opened these and there is 27 missing so somebody had a go using them , and one hook in the box still had a bit of old looking line but not nylon by the looks of it.
think there a size 4 hook anybody with info , or have you ever used these type ,they have a strange largish loop on the end of the shank :shrug: boxed eel hooks 001.JPGboxed eel hooks 001.JPG
Your box of eel hooks is almost certainly Victorian Steve. :cool:

Henry Milward & Sons became a limited company in 1906 and your box doesn't have 'Ltd' in the company name. Milwards amalgamated in 1902 with another famous Redditch needle and tackle maker, William Bartleet & Sons. The Milward 'Iron arm' and Bartleet 'Archer' are two of the most famous trade marks in old angling history.

They traded for a short while as 'Milward-Bartleet'. Your hooks pre-date that, so are 1800s vintage - proper antiques!

I have a single example of that type in a tin of miscellaneous old hooks. Thanks to you, I now know exactly what it is! :grin: :thumbs:

(It seems likely the enlarged eye was meant to accommodate thick, corded line - possibly for use on a multiple hooked 'set' eel line, fished on a 'bank runner' or fixed to a stake. :shrug: ).
Last edited by John Milford on Sat Jun 12 2021 13:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by davelumb »

stubbojo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12 2021 09:48 -
John Milford wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10 2021 19:57 -
Slightly off topic, but relevent and interesting.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0716301513
you would think bigger hooks would prevent deeper hookings , bite detection is the factor when eel fishing , like pike eels can swallow baits pretty fast.
I've shortened my hooklinks and don't deep hook as many eels as I used to.
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by Mike J »

stubbojo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 19:59 -
these hooks only catch eels ....you cant argue with that it says it on the box
first time i have opened these and there is 27 missing so somebody had a go using them , and one hook in the box still had a bit of old looking line but not nylon by the looks of it.
think there a size 4 hook anybody with info , or have you ever used these type ,they have a strange largish loop on the end of the shank :shrug: boxed eel hooks 001.JPGboxed eel hooks 001.JPG

The large backward facing eye could be to help unhooking the eel without the need to handle them.
When my Grandad took me eel fishing he used a length of string to get the hook out, taking a turn of string around the line above the hook then holding both ends in one hand and the hooklength above he just pulled his hands apart until the lines became tight and just shook the eel off. Never failed to work, no mess no slime, the eels went in a pail, and the pot.

John, the large eye would be well suited to Cuttyhunk :thumbs:

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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by stubbojo »

John Milford wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12 2021 11:24 -
stubbojo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 19:59 -
these hooks only catch eels ....you cant argue with that it says it on the box
first time i have opened these and there is 27 missing so somebody had a go using them , and one hook in the box still had a bit of old looking line but not nylon by the looks of it.
think there a size 4 hook anybody with info , or have you ever used these type ,they have a strange largish loop on the end of the shank :shrug: boxed eel hooks 001.JPGboxed eel hooks 001.JPG
Your box of eel hooks is almost certainly Victorian Steve. :cool:

Henry Milward & Sons became a limited company in 1906 and your box doesn't have 'Ltd' in the company name. Milwards amalgamated in 1902 with another famous Redditch needle and tackle maker, William Bartleet & Sons. The Milward 'Iron arm' and Bartleet 'Archer' are two of the most famous trade marks in old angling history.

They traded for a short while as 'Milward-Bartleet'. Your hooks pre-date that, so are 1800s vintage - proper antiques!

I have a single example of that type in a tin of miscellaneous old hooks. Thanks to you, I now know exactly what it is! :grin: :thumbs:

(It seems likely the enlarged eye was meant to accommodate thick, corded line - possibly for use on a multiple hooked 'set' eel line, fished on a 'bank runner' or fixed to a stake. :shrug: ).
bloody hell john ,never thought they were that old , they look mint in the box , just trying to remember when i acquired these from
so they could be over 122 years old john , have i got that right john..thanks for that well informed info
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by stubbojo »

Mike J wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12 2021 13:59 -
stubbojo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11 2021 19:59 -
these hooks only catch eels ....you cant argue with that it says it on the box
first time i have opened these and there is 27 missing so somebody had a go using them , and one hook in the box still had a bit of old looking line but not nylon by the looks of it.
think there a size 4 hook anybody with info , or have you ever used these type ,they have a strange largish loop on the end of the shank :shrug: boxed eel hooks 001.JPGboxed eel hooks 001.JPG

The large backward facing eye could be to help unhooking the eel without the need to handle them.
When my Grandad took me eel fishing he used a length of string to get the hook out, taking a turn of string around the line above the hook then holding both ends in one hand and the hooklength above he just pulled his hands apart until the lines became tight and just shook the eel off. Never failed to work, no mess no slime, the eels went in a pail, and the pot.

John, the large eye would be well suited to Cuttyhunk :thumbs:

.
mike what is cuttyhunk pal
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by John Milford »

'Cuttyhunk' was a general name for braided flax or linen fishing lines. Strong, but thicker than equivalent b.s. silk lines.

IMG_20190525_155407.jpg
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Re: Worm hooks for eels

Post by John Milford »

stubbojo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12 2021 21:31 -

bloody hell john ,never thought they were that old , they look mint in the box , just trying to remember when i acquired these from
so they could be over 122 years old john , have i got that right john..thanks for that well informed info
Yes, 120+ years old Steve. Very old items that are put away and forgotten about for many decades sometimes belie their age, especially if they've been kept somewhere dry and we'll protected. Rare to find though, in such very good nick as yours!
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "
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