Vintage rod rebuild

Talk about Lure/Tackle ID's; Reminisce over bygone times and old fishing tackle
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Mark_Houghton
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Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Wed Apr 17 2019 11:59

I`d been meaning to rebuild this old Abu Diplomat crank handled rod for ages, and finally got round to it yesterday. Nice looking rod in it`s original state, but I think it was originally only designed to match up with the gold plated Deluxe Ambassadeurs, as every other Abu reel just looked out of place on it. So, I stripped the gold anodising off all the metal fittings and polished the bare aluminium up a bit. Rewhipped in brown with cream tips (which turned grey after sealing them, but they still look ok).
I`m no rodbuilder by any means and Lumby would likely p**s himself laughing at the state of the epoxy and whippings, but I quite like how it turned out :grin:

Before....

Image

....and after....

Image

Image

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davelumb
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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Wed Apr 17 2019 12:23

Vandal! :laughs:

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Wed Apr 17 2019 12:27

davelumb wrote:
Vandal! :laughs:
:laughs: :laughs: :laughs:

To be fair, the original whippings were pretty goosed, so it needed sorting anyway. If it had been a mint one, I`d not have touched it :grin:

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Wed Apr 17 2019 12:32

Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Vandal! :laughs:
:laughs: :laughs: :laughs:

To be fair, the original whippings were pretty goosed, so it needed sorting anyway. If it had been a mint one, I`d not have touched it :grin:
The whippings on those Abu rods are prone to wear. Not enough varnish used I suspect.

What rings are on that one?

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Wed Apr 17 2019 12:46

davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Vandal! :laughs:
:laughs: :laughs: :laughs:

To be fair, the original whippings were pretty goosed, so it needed sorting anyway. If it had been a mint one, I`d not have touched it :grin:
The whippings on those Abu rods are prone to wear. Not enough varnish used I suspect.

What rings are on that one?
Theyre gold Seymos Dave. I`d replaced the original wire rings with those a while back. You might remember I was asking about keeping grey whippings grey when coating them. Ideally i`d have liked to put different rings on it this time but that`s all I had.
I watched an old Abu vid a while back where they were building rods up in the factory, and it looked as though it was just a single coat of varnish on those old rod whippings. It`s usually the first ring on the tip section (nearest the joint) that gets wrecked first, due to people using the ring to twist the tip out of the metal ferrule joint.

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Wed Apr 17 2019 12:50

Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Vandal! :laughs:
:laughs: :laughs: :laughs:

To be fair, the original whippings were pretty goosed, so it needed sorting anyway. If it had been a mint one, I`d not have touched it :grin:
The whippings on those Abu rods are prone to wear. Not enough varnish used I suspect.

What rings are on that one?
Theyre gold Seymos Dave. I`d replaced the original wire rings with those a while back. You might remember I was asking about keeping grey whippings grey when coating them. Ideally i`d have liked to put different rings on it this time but that`s all I had.
I watched an old Abu vid a while back where they were building rods up in the factory, and it looked as though it was just a single coat of varnish on those old rod whippings. It`s usually the first ring on the tip section (nearest the joint) that gets wrecked first, due to people using the ring to twist the tip out of the metal ferrule joint.
I thought they looked like Seymos and not the wire rings. The Seymos are probably vintage now!

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Wed Apr 17 2019 12:53

davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Vandal! :laughs:
:laughs: :laughs: :laughs:

To be fair, the original whippings were pretty goosed, so it needed sorting anyway. If it had been a mint one, I`d not have touched it :grin:
The whippings on those Abu rods are prone to wear. Not enough varnish used I suspect.

What rings are on that one?
Theyre gold Seymos Dave. I`d replaced the original wire rings with those a while back. You might remember I was asking about keeping grey whippings grey when coating them. Ideally i`d have liked to put different rings on it this time but that`s all I had.
I watched an old Abu vid a while back where they were building rods up in the factory, and it looked as though it was just a single coat of varnish on those old rod whippings. It`s usually the first ring on the tip section (nearest the joint) that gets wrecked first, due to people using the ring to twist the tip out of the metal ferrule joint.
I thought they looked like Seymos and not the wire rings. The Seymos are probably vintage now!
The foot had snapped from one of the original rings (bottom of tip section, using it as a lever, like I said) so I had no choice but to replace them. H&H still sell the gold Seymos, or at least they did a while back when I bought those ones :smile:

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Wed Apr 17 2019 13:05

Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Vandal! :laughs:
:laughs: :laughs: :laughs:

To be fair, the original whippings were pretty goosed, so it needed sorting anyway. If it had been a mint one, I`d not have touched it :grin:
The whippings on those Abu rods are prone to wear. Not enough varnish used I suspect.

What rings are on that one?
Theyre gold Seymos Dave. I`d replaced the original wire rings with those a while back. You might remember I was asking about keeping grey whippings grey when coating them. Ideally i`d have liked to put different rings on it this time but that`s all I had.
I watched an old Abu vid a while back where they were building rods up in the factory, and it looked as though it was just a single coat of varnish on those old rod whippings. It`s usually the first ring on the tip section (nearest the joint) that gets wrecked first, due to people using the ring to twist the tip out of the metal ferrule joint.
I thought they looked like Seymos and not the wire rings. The Seymos are probably vintage now!
The foot had snapped from one of the original rings (bottom of tip section, using it as a lever, like I said) so I had no choice but to replace them. H&H still sell the gold Seymos, or at least they did a while back when I bought those ones :smile:
Still in stock. They're not the original Supaglide centres though, they're the nastier Hardlon.

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by John Milford » Wed Apr 17 2019 13:32

Ring nerds . . . . :roll: :clown:
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Wed Apr 17 2019 13:36

John Milford wrote:
Ring nerds . . . . :roll: :clown:
Guilty as charged, m'lud. :wave:

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by John Milford » Wed Apr 17 2019 13:40

davelumb wrote:
John Milford wrote:
Ring nerds . . . . :roll: :clown:
Guilty as charged, m'lud. :wave:
You're almost ready to take the quantum leap up to 'Hook-hanger nerd' :thumbs:
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Wed Apr 17 2019 13:51

John Milford wrote:
davelumb wrote:
John Milford wrote:
Ring nerds . . . . :roll: :clown:
Guilty as charged, m'lud. :wave:
You're almost ready to take the quantum leap up to 'Hook-hanger nerd' :thumbs:
I'll stick with rod fittings, thanks. :smile:

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Monts » Wed Apr 17 2019 20:32

That looks much cleaner Mark, the original look screams John Holden to me. :grin:

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Wed Apr 17 2019 21:40

Monts wrote:
That looks much cleaner Mark, the original look screams John Holden to me. :grin:
It`s probably the Penn reel that makes you think of him Jason, he used them in his casting videos :smile:

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mike J » Thu Apr 18 2019 08:24

Ive seen more 6lb plus plaice caught on those rods than most of the others combined.
They were superior to anything else for those of us who started walking rather than dragging our baits.
We used them as made with the wire rings, nothing wrong with them as long as you washed and dried everything at the days end, yes the whipping want too brilliant but the sensitivity of the blank and its resiliance more than compensated.
I wasnt too happy when had mine lifted.

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Nobby C » Thu Apr 18 2019 09:07

Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Thu Apr 18 2019 10:05

Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Thu Apr 18 2019 10:13

Mike J wrote:
Ive seen more 6lb plus plaice caught on those rods than most of the others combined.
They were superior to anything else for those of us who started walking rather than dragging our baits.
We used them as made with the wire rings, nothing wrong with them as long as you washed and dried everything at the days end, yes the whipping want too brilliant but the sensitivity of the blank and its resiliance more than compensated.
I wasnt too happy when had mine lifted.
I Knew the longer 9ft Atlantics were popular for bass etc, but I had no idea these little rods proved so popular for saltwater fishing too Mike. Totally agree about their resilience, I can`t think of a single rod these days that could handle such a wide range of lure weights without dying in the process. This one will cast lures from around 10g all the way to 2-3oz provided distance isn`t an issue.

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Thu Apr 18 2019 10:15

davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Thu Apr 18 2019 10:48

Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.
The Fuji cranks weren't heavy - although that rubber grip stuff on the parallel glass butts was.

I'm sure a lightweight cranked reel seat could be made, but the faff of fitting them would increase manufacturing costs. probably why 'blank through' seat got promoted on the grounds of blank strength and sensitivity. :wink:

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Thu Apr 18 2019 10:56

davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.
The Fuji cranks weren't heavy - although that rubber grip stuff on the parallel glass butts was.

I'm sure a lightweight cranked reel seat could be made, but the faff of fitting them would increase manufacturing costs. probably why 'blank through' seat got promoted on the grounds of blank strength and sensitivity. :wink:
No youre right they werent mate, but the extra strain on them from a longer butt section could cause them to snap over time, especially chucking heavier lures around...seen that happen twice over the years, once to one of my own old rods i`d extended the handle on. Something moulded around a metal skeleton would offer plenty of strength and reduce the weight, but they`re so out of fashion nowadays it would never happen. It`s a shame as I think they`re still the most comfortable reel fitting for round multipliers, and if you put a lower profile reel on one, it pretty much isn`t there any more it`s so comfortable to palm :grin:
IMG_20181109_151135.jpg
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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Thu Apr 18 2019 11:01

Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.
The Fuji cranks weren't heavy - although that rubber grip stuff on the parallel glass butts was.

I'm sure a lightweight cranked reel seat could be made, but the faff of fitting them would increase manufacturing costs. probably why 'blank through' seat got promoted on the grounds of blank strength and sensitivity. :wink:
No youre right they werent mate, but the extra strain on them from a longer butt section could cause them to snap over time, especially chucking heavier lures around...seen that happen twice over the years, once to one of my own old rods i`d extended the handle on. Something moulded around a metal skeleton would offer plenty of strength and reduce the weight, but they`re so out of fashion nowadays it would never happen. It`s a shame as I think they`re still the most comfortable reel fitting for round multipliers, and if you put a lower profile reel on one, it pretty much isn`t there any more it`s so comfortable to palm :grin:

IMG_20181109_151135.jpg
The weak point of the Fuji crank is the shortness of the recesses for fitting the blank, even allowing for the collet which extended it at the front.

The carbon/composite technology is there to make an all in one blank/crank seat. But I guess it would be expensive!

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Thu Apr 18 2019 11:08

davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.
The Fuji cranks weren't heavy - although that rubber grip stuff on the parallel glass butts was.

I'm sure a lightweight cranked reel seat could be made, but the faff of fitting them would increase manufacturing costs. probably why 'blank through' seat got promoted on the grounds of blank strength and sensitivity. :wink:
No youre right they werent mate, but the extra strain on them from a longer butt section could cause them to snap over time, especially chucking heavier lures around...seen that happen twice over the years, once to one of my own old rods i`d extended the handle on. Something moulded around a metal skeleton would offer plenty of strength and reduce the weight, but they`re so out of fashion nowadays it would never happen. It`s a shame as I think they`re still the most comfortable reel fitting for round multipliers, and if you put a lower profile reel on one, it pretty much isn`t there any more it`s so comfortable to palm :grin:

IMG_20181109_151135.jpg
The weak point of the Fuji crank is the shortness of the recesses for fitting the blank, even allowing for the collet which extended it at the front.

The carbon/composite technology is there to make an all in one blank/crank seat. But I guess it would be expensive!
With today`s overpricing they would likely be MEGA expensive mate :grin:

Do you remember these, from back in the 80s? always thought they looked really good the way they`ve made the blank cover the reel seat....this isn`t mine, I nicked the pic a while back :pirate:
$(KGrHqN,!psE-zq59hc0BQCEZYbwYg~~60_57.JPG
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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Thu Apr 18 2019 11:37

Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.
The Fuji cranks weren't heavy - although that rubber grip stuff on the parallel glass butts was.

I'm sure a lightweight cranked reel seat could be made, but the faff of fitting them would increase manufacturing costs. probably why 'blank through' seat got promoted on the grounds of blank strength and sensitivity. :wink:
No youre right they werent mate, but the extra strain on them from a longer butt section could cause them to snap over time, especially chucking heavier lures around...seen that happen twice over the years, once to one of my own old rods i`d extended the handle on. Something moulded around a metal skeleton would offer plenty of strength and reduce the weight, but they`re so out of fashion nowadays it would never happen. It`s a shame as I think they`re still the most comfortable reel fitting for round multipliers, and if you put a lower profile reel on one, it pretty much isn`t there any more it`s so comfortable to palm :grin:

IMG_20181109_151135.jpg
The weak point of the Fuji crank is the shortness of the recesses for fitting the blank, even allowing for the collet which extended it at the front.

The carbon/composite technology is there to make an all in one blank/crank seat. But I guess it would be expensive!
With today`s overpricing they would likely be MEGA expensive mate :grin:

Do you remember these, from back in the 80s? always thought they looked really good the way they`ve made the blank cover the reel seat....this isn`t mine, I nicked the pic a while back :pirate:

$(KGrHqN,!psE-zq59hc0BQCEZYbwYg~~60_57.JPG
It does ring a bell.

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mike J » Fri Apr 19 2019 09:09

davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.
The Fuji cranks weren't heavy - although that rubber grip stuff on the parallel glass butts was.

I'm sure a lightweight cranked reel seat could be made, but the faff of fitting them would increase manufacturing costs. probably why 'blank through' seat got promoted on the grounds of blank strength and sensitivity. :wink:
No youre right they werent mate, but the extra strain on them from a longer butt section could cause them to snap over time, especially chucking heavier lures around...seen that happen twice over the years, once to one of my own old rods i`d extended the handle on. Something moulded around a metal skeleton would offer plenty of strength and reduce the weight, but they`re so out of fashion nowadays it would never happen. It`s a shame as I think they`re still the most comfortable reel fitting for round multipliers, and if you put a lower profile reel on one, it pretty much isn`t there any more it`s so comfortable to palm :grin:

IMG_20181109_151135.jpg
The weak point of the Fuji crank is the shortness of the recesses for fitting the blank, even allowing for the collet which extended it at the front.

The carbon/composite technology is there to make an all in one blank/crank seat. But I guess it would be expensive!

Dave,
Its a combination of poor blank construction and unsuitable material in the butt thats the weakness.
AFTCO Aluminium Unibutts have a 2.5" ferrule to fit the tubular blank into the butt and they are strong enough for 60-80lb of drag loading with 130lb tackle.

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Fri Apr 19 2019 09:21

Mike J wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.
The Fuji cranks weren't heavy - although that rubber grip stuff on the parallel glass butts was.

I'm sure a lightweight cranked reel seat could be made, but the faff of fitting them would increase manufacturing costs. probably why 'blank through' seat got promoted on the grounds of blank strength and sensitivity. :wink:
No youre right they werent mate, but the extra strain on them from a longer butt section could cause them to snap over time, especially chucking heavier lures around...seen that happen twice over the years, once to one of my own old rods i`d extended the handle on. Something moulded around a metal skeleton would offer plenty of strength and reduce the weight, but they`re so out of fashion nowadays it would never happen. It`s a shame as I think they`re still the most comfortable reel fitting for round multipliers, and if you put a lower profile reel on one, it pretty much isn`t there any more it`s so comfortable to palm :grin:

IMG_20181109_151135.jpg
The weak point of the Fuji crank is the shortness of the recesses for fitting the blank, even allowing for the collet which extended it at the front.

The carbon/composite technology is there to make an all in one blank/crank seat. But I guess it would be expensive!

Dave,
Its a combination of poor blank construction and unsuitable material in the butt thats the weakness.
AFTCO Aluminium Unibutts have a 2.5" ferrule to fit the tubular blank into the butt and they are strong enough for 60-80lb of drag loading with 130lb tackle.
An AFTCO butt would be a bit heavy on a lure rod :laughs:

That aside they use a totally different construction and are used differently. The blank/ferrule fits inside the reel seat,and when in use there is a hand placed above the joint, which takes the load off the joint, and the butt might also be in a gimbal. The joint of a crank handle is immediately above the reel seat and the reel (or behind the reel) is where the rod is held. The weak spot is almost exactly where you don't want it.

I'm sure a composite moulding could be made which would be strong enough to make an efficient, and lightweight, crank handle/seat. But there is probably no demand.

Going off track here, I have a hazy memory of a (salmon?) fly rod with some sort of crank reel seat but can't find it. Did I imagine it? :shrug:

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Fri Apr 19 2019 12:22

davelumb wrote:
Mike J wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.
The Fuji cranks weren't heavy - although that rubber grip stuff on the parallel glass butts was.

I'm sure a lightweight cranked reel seat could be made, but the faff of fitting them would increase manufacturing costs. probably why 'blank through' seat got promoted on the grounds of blank strength and sensitivity. :wink:
No youre right they werent mate, but the extra strain on them from a longer butt section could cause them to snap over time, especially chucking heavier lures around...seen that happen twice over the years, once to one of my own old rods i`d extended the handle on. Something moulded around a metal skeleton would offer plenty of strength and reduce the weight, but they`re so out of fashion nowadays it would never happen. It`s a shame as I think they`re still the most comfortable reel fitting for round multipliers, and if you put a lower profile reel on one, it pretty much isn`t there any more it`s so comfortable to palm :grin:

IMG_20181109_151135.jpg
The weak point of the Fuji crank is the shortness of the recesses for fitting the blank, even allowing for the collet which extended it at the front.

The carbon/composite technology is there to make an all in one blank/crank seat. But I guess it would be expensive!

Dave,
Its a combination of poor blank construction and unsuitable material in the butt thats the weakness.
AFTCO Aluminium Unibutts have a 2.5" ferrule to fit the tubular blank into the butt and they are strong enough for 60-80lb of drag loading with 130lb tackle.
An AFTCO butt would be a bit heavy on a lure rod :laughs:

That aside they use a totally different construction and are used differently. The blank/ferrule fits inside the reel seat,and when in use there is a hand placed above the joint, which takes the load off the joint, and the butt might also be in a gimbal. The joint of a crank handle is immediately above the reel seat and the reel (or behind the reel) is where the rod is held. The weak spot is almost exactly where you don't want it.

I'm sure a composite moulding could be made which would be strong enough to make an efficient, and lightweight, crank handle/seat. But there is probably no demand.

Going off track here, I have a hazy memory of a (salmon?) fly rod with some sort of crank reel seat but can't find it. Did I imagine it? :shrug:
Even on the old Abus there isnt that much blank inside the handle. This is one I fitted a carbon blank to, a short while back, and the blank only goes into the metal portion above the foregrip. It seems solid though, and the blank I used is quite a thick walled one so I expect it to be ok. From memory, on the later Speedlock handles the blank went right up through the foregrip section aswell.
IMG_20190304_181655068.jpg
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davelumb
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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by davelumb » Fri Apr 19 2019 12:29

If the blank inserted sufficiently and the inserted portion and some of the protruding section was reinforced I expect a strong enough build could be achieved for minimal cost. Pity there's no clamouring throng asking for such a rod!

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mark_Houghton » Fri Apr 19 2019 12:40

davelumb wrote:
If the blank inserted sufficiently and the inserted portion and some of the protruding section was reinforced I expect a strong enough build could be achieved for minimal cost. Pity there's no clamouring throng asking for such a rod!
I dont think there ever will be Dave, theyre firmly rooted in the past and something I very much doubt we`ll see made again, sadly. Even the offset jap handles are of the older design, similar to the old Heddon and Shakespeare baitcasters of the 60s and earlier with the locking plate to fix the reel in position. The sprung sliding reel lock on the Abus was an excellent design, and very secure. The design went backwards a bit with the second generation Speedlock rods as the pin on the reel lock protruded, and dug into your finger when casting. I remember covering mine with a bit of innertube.

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Re: Vintage rod rebuild

Post by Mike J » Sat Apr 20 2019 09:16

davelumb wrote:
Mike J wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Mark_Houghton wrote:
davelumb wrote:
Nobby C wrote:
Is there a reason why crank handles fell out of favour?
Probably cost.
...and weight I`d imagine Dave. They were pretty heavy, although the rods were well balanced so the weight didn`t affect you too much when using them. The japs still make the old single handed metal pistol grips, but the prices are ridiculous....i`ve seen them for sale at over £200 just for the handle.
The Fuji cranks weren't heavy - although that rubber grip stuff on the parallel glass butts was.

I'm sure a lightweight cranked reel seat could be made, but the faff of fitting them would increase manufacturing costs. probably why 'blank through' seat got promoted on the grounds of blank strength and sensitivity. :wink:
No youre right they werent mate, but the extra strain on them from a longer butt section could cause them to snap over time, especially chucking heavier lures around...seen that happen twice over the years, once to one of my own old rods i`d extended the handle on. Something moulded around a metal skeleton would offer plenty of strength and reduce the weight, but they`re so out of fashion nowadays it would never happen. It`s a shame as I think they`re still the most comfortable reel fitting for round multipliers, and if you put a lower profile reel on one, it pretty much isn`t there any more it`s so comfortable to palm :grin:

IMG_20181109_151135.jpg
The weak point of the Fuji crank is the shortness of the recesses for fitting the blank, even allowing for the collet which extended it at the front.

The carbon/composite technology is there to make an all in one blank/crank seat. But I guess it would be expensive!

Dave,
Its a combination of poor blank construction and unsuitable material in the butt thats the weakness.
AFTCO Aluminium Unibutts have a 2.5" ferrule to fit the tubular blank into the butt and they are strong enough for 60-80lb of drag loading with 130lb tackle.
An AFTCO butt would be a bit heavy on a lure rod :laughs:

That aside they use a totally different construction and are used differently. The blank/ferrule fits inside the reel seat,and when in use there is a hand placed above the joint, which takes the load off the joint, and the butt might also be in a gimbal. The joint of a crank handle is immediately above the reel seat and the reel (or behind the reel) is where the rod is held. The weak spot is almost exactly where you don't want it.

I'm sure a composite moulding could be made which would be strong enough to make an efficient, and lightweight, crank handle/seat. But there is probably no demand.

Going off track here, I have a hazy memory of a (salmon?) fly rod with some sort of crank reel seat but can't find it. Did I imagine it? :shrug:


AFTCO butts are hollow and suprisingly light, if mine weren't in store I would weigh an example.

When using a big game rod the top hand does not hold the rod, the grip is used for guiding the rod and transfers.

When fighting a fish the top hand lays across the top of the reel with the thumb and forefinger laying the incoming line, it also acts as a safety brake if the line breaks, stopping the recoiling blank hitting the angler.
Game rods are held by straps from a rod belt/harness to the reel lugs with the rod angle set at 45degrees, in stand-up line is recovered by rocking forward and recovering line and loading the rod by rocking back, similarly sliding back and forth in a fighting chair.
When light tackle/freshwater anglers first fish big game the initial lesson is to explain how a rod actually works and that raising the rod beyond 45degrees will lead to a decrease in the power applied to the fish.

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