Just Off The Cuff

The forum to discuss anything related to these other styles of catching fish
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Monts
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Just Off The Cuff

Post by Monts » Fri Nov 08 2019 20:57

I've been having a chat with one or two people this last week about the amount of river fishing that has been lost these last few seasons particularly the autumn and winter owing to very high water, like over the top of the banks and gushing through. Now we come to the close season for coarse fish. I can fish a river that has a fair few Trout and target them on an artificial bait be it a lure or a fly. Or with a live minnow caught in a minnow trap from the said river. And yes coarse fish are caught also. But it's a s**t hole with constant out of season fishing for all species and the EA are not fussed.

But let's say twenty miles away, a river that holds very few Trout, like rare as hen's teeth but they do pop up. If I was to fly fish it only for Trout but catch more coarse fish is there really a difference? Would an angler doing this have to be sent to the naughty step? It's just something that's been going around my head.

:grin:
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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by davelumb » Fri Nov 08 2019 21:01

I've met a few fluff chuckers who seem quite happy catching more chub than trout early in the trout season.

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andrew_nagel
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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by andrew_nagel » Fri Nov 08 2019 21:04

I believe a certain guide used to take clients out on the Norfolk rivers fly fishing for seatrout. Caught loads of out-of-season pike, but hey-ho.

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Monts » Fri Nov 08 2019 21:12

Dave,

The Chub did not spawn our way last year until July on the main river, but catching them on a small stream in April is fine.

Andrew,

Not Pike at all, but a little 4# maybe for small Chub and Dace. What I can't get my head around is that one river holds a fair head of Trout and catching coarse fish is OK, I talked with a local EA guy about this. But on another river, it's not owing to not holding many Trout. It's smacks of double standards to me.
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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by martin(rockape) » Fri Nov 08 2019 23:47

I reckon if you fly fished with the intention to catch coarse fish out of season then obviously your out of order.
But if approached and challenged your obviously going to say your after trout even if they are thin on the ground on that venue... That's the objective for you, the challenge.

You could still be questioned with doubt of course.

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Kev Berry » Sat Nov 09 2019 00:45

Monts wrote:
I've been having a chat with one or two people this last week about the amount of river fishing that has been lost these last few seasons particularly the autumn and winter owing to very high water, like over the top of the banks and gushing through. Now we come to the close season for coarse fish. I can fish a river that has a fair few Trout and target them on an artificial bait be it a lure or a fly. Or with a live minnow caught in a minnow trap from the said river. And yes coarse fish are caught also. But it's a s**t hole with constant out of season fishing for all species and the EA are not fussed.

But let's say twenty miles away, a river that holds very few Trout, like rare as hen's teeth but they do pop up. If I was to fly fish it only for Trout but catch more coarse fish is there really a difference? Would an angler doing this have to be sent to the naughty step? It's just something that's been going around my head.

:grin:
the more concrete and houses they cover the ground with the more the rivers are going to flood, nowt to do with climate change like they saying on telly tonight, lack of flood plains cos they building on them is why and the increase in population/houses.
Means this years fry and a lot of adult fish will be gone when the water comes back down.
I think river fish need all the protection they can get and we should realise that these very wet years and these very hot summers take a big toll of them without us wanting to fish for them at any opportunity by bending the rules or wanting closed seasons changed because we haven't been able to fish when its the season. Yes they may spawn out the season at times but they usually manage to get somewhere near it.

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Monts » Sat Nov 09 2019 01:45

Kev Berry wrote:
Monts wrote:
I've been having a chat with one or two people this last week about the amount of river fishing that has been lost these last few seasons particularly the autumn and winter owing to very high water, like over the top of the banks and gushing through. Now we come to the close season for coarse fish. I can fish a river that has a fair few Trout and target them on an artificial bait be it a lure or a fly. Or with a live minnow caught in a minnow trap from the said river. And yes coarse fish are caught also. But it's a s**t hole with constant out of season fishing for all species and the EA are not fussed.

But let's say twenty miles away, a river that holds very few Trout, like rare as hen's teeth but they do pop up. If I was to fly fish it only for Trout but catch more coarse fish is there really a difference? Would an angler doing this have to be sent to the naughty step? It's just something that's been going around my head.

:grin:
the more concrete and houses they cover the ground with the more the rivers are going to flood, nowt to do with climate change like they saying on telly tonight, lack of flood plains cos they building on them is why and the increase in population/houses.
Means this years fry and a lot of adult fish will be gone when the water comes back down.
I think river fish need all the protection they can get and we should realise that these very wet years and these very hot summers take a big toll of them without us wanting to fish for them at any opportunity by bending the rules or wanting closed seasons changed because we haven't been able to fish when its the season. Yes they may spawn out the season at times but they usually manage to get somewhere near it.

Kev,

I think you are missing the point? What I'm getting at why is it OK to catch coarse fish while fishing for Trout on a chalk stream, but using the same method is frowned upon on a lowland river?
If you wanna go fishing go fishing.- John Gierach

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by andrew_nagel » Sat Nov 09 2019 02:22

Monts wrote:
Dave,

The Chub did not spawn our way last year until July on the main river, but catching them on a small stream in April is fine.

Andrew,

Not Pike at all, but a little 4# maybe for small Chub and Dace. What I can't get my head around is that one river holds a fair head of Trout and catching coarse fish is OK, I talked with a local EA guy about this. But on another river, it's not owing to not holding many Trout. It's smacks of double standards to me.
I was just making a comparison by referring to a guide that used the in-season seatrout as a convenient reason to be on a river when his real quarry were the pike.

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Mike J » Sat Nov 09 2019 10:06

Someone could use the excuse they are fly fishing for trout in any river trout are found, its not unethical nor is it illegal and it wouldn't stop me if I was so inclined.
I also doubt the EA would prosecute for doing it either.

When the trout have lockjaw Ive sometimes suggested a rod has a go at the packs of basking chub, Ive even been known to feed a few pellets to get their attention.

:grin:

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Duncan Holmes » Sat Nov 09 2019 12:31

andrew_nagel wrote:
Monts wrote:
Dave,

The Chub did not spawn our way last year until July on the main river, but catching them on a small stream in April is fine.

Andrew,

Not Pike at all, but a little 4# maybe for small Chub and Dace. What I can't get my head around is that one river holds a fair head of Trout and catching coarse fish is OK, I talked with a local EA guy about this. But on another river, it's not owing to not holding many Trout. It's smacks of double standards to me.
I was just making a comparison by referring to a guide that used the in-season seatrout as a convenient reason to be on a river when his real quarry were the pike.
Indeed he did, also claimed he had been stopped and checked by the EA on a number of occasions and had no problems.

Not right by my own moral compass, but then according to some, my moral compass might need calibrating in certain other areas.
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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by John Milford » Sat Nov 09 2019 12:40

Wasn't there a loophole where you could claim to be fishing for eels too years ago? (Might have been before the EA, when rivers came under the old Water Authorities).
"He's some sort of lure savant. Or just has an unhealthy addiction to old lures. We are not quite sure . . . . . "

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Duncan Holmes » Sat Nov 09 2019 12:51

John Milford wrote:
Wasn't there a loophole where you could claim to be fishing for eels too years ago? (Might have been before the EA, when rivers came under the old Water Authorities).
Yes, fishmeal boilies being described as preserved fish which is (was) a legal bait for eels, I think the gape of the hook had to be over 13mm or something like that.

Taverham mills in Norwich opened one closed season to allow carpers to fish for "eels". I think it was the last year of the close season on lakes.
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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by alan behenna » Sat Nov 09 2019 12:56

Some Clubs have tightened the situation up a bit with the imposition of amended rules specific to their own waters............and rightly so, if folks want to fish there they will have to abide by Club Rules or risk being told to "do-one" by a bailiff. Sometimes the odd Club will play "catch-up" as they see' their own rules being bent, so on occasions there's rule updates brought in.

There's always some who will try to bend-it as far as they can and holding "it don't apply to me syndrome".

Less of a problem though than the feckers' who ignore them.

:guns:

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Monts » Sat Nov 09 2019 14:14

Being on the club comitee I'm sure any rules can be altered to help those who want to fly fish for the hallowed hybrid Brown Chub. :grin:
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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Mike J » Sun Nov 10 2019 10:57

John Milford wrote:
Wasn't there a loophole where you could claim to be fishing for eels too years ago? (Might have been before the EA, when rivers came under the old Water Authorities).


The fishing for eels loophole resulted in the death of atleast two +30 fish to my knowledge.
Ive seen two spinning for Perch anglers dealt with by the EA because they were using small Mepps to target out of season trout.

Like drink driving or using a mobile there are always a few who think its okay for them, has it not always been so.

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Will Smith » Tue Nov 12 2019 19:13

How did they deal with them Mike, a quite word or a prosecution ?
A wee Mepps is a perfect lure for Perch and it would not be unreasonable to use one when targeting Perch, they must have been doing something more obvious than just using a wee Mepps to have raised suspicion ?
Seems a bit ridiculous to me.

Will.

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Re: Just Off The Cuff

Post by Monts » Tue Nov 12 2019 19:25

Mike J wrote:
John Milford wrote:
Wasn't there a loophole where you could claim to be fishing for eels too years ago? (Might have been before the EA, when rivers came under the old Water Authorities).


The fishing for eels loophole resulted in the death of atleast two +30 fish to my knowledge.
Ive seen two spinning for Perch anglers dealt with by the EA because they were using small Mepps to target out of season trout.

Like drink driving or using a mobile there are always a few who think its okay for them, has it not always been so.
This out of season Trout thing does make me chuckle, I could pop down to the LIF in the next few weeks and trot a float for Grayling and catch Brownies. The same on BC in Berkshire as we had done in the past, fish it for coarse fish and get beaten up by out of season Trout although they rest the fishery over the winter now for restoration. Perhaps the powers that be still see some species as more worthy than others?
If you wanna go fishing go fishing.- John Gierach

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